Ron Springett In The Net - Sheffield Wednesday

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Reesh1867

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Sheffield Wednesday
#1 14/11/2019 at 16:39

Consilio et Animis 

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Andyben

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Sheffield Wednesday
#2 14/11/2019 at 16:41

we's fucked 

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Baresi

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Sheffield Wednesday
#3 14/11/2019 at 16:48

Looks like it. No doubt we'll get charged - and of course because it's us, found guilty - for the 2018-19 season as well. Points deduction and L1 here we come. 

I ask you will Galway bate Mayo? Not if they have Willie Joe...they haven't a hope of beating Mayo! 

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Beaconowl

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#4 14/11/2019 at 16:49

what will be the consequence of this fucker then, if we are found guilty? 

Its now or never 

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Reesh1867

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Sheffield Wednesday
#5 14/11/2019 at 16:50

We will get 9 points swiped now.  

Consilio et Animis 

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Andyben

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Sheffield Wednesday
#6 14/11/2019 at 16:52

They're accusing the club of dishonesty.

That's not good  

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Beaconowl

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#7 14/11/2019 at 16:52

FFS Cry

Its now or never 

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holmesfield_owl

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Sheffield Wednesday
#8 14/11/2019 at 16:58

I said last week, if it looks like we could go up then that threat will be removed one way or another.

2019/20, the promotion party starts now!!!! 

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Baresi

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Sheffield Wednesday
#9 14/11/2019 at 17:00

They can do a lot more than deduct 9pts. Appreciate there's the Birmingham precedent, but they may not regard that as relevant.

From the EFL regs:

Decisions

92.1 The Disciplinary Commission may at any time make a decision, and may make more than one decision at different times on different aspects of the matters to be determined.

92.2 A decision may:

92.2.1 order a party to do or refrain from doing anything;

92.2.2 order a specific performance;

92.2.3 make a declaration on any matter to be determined;

92.2.4 issue a reprimand or warning as to the future conduct of a party;

92.2.5 order the payment of compensation to The League, any Club, any other club, Player or other person;

92.2.6 order a suspension of membership of The League;

92.2.7 order a deduction of points;

92.2.8 impose a financial penalty payable to The League;

92.2.9 recommend expulsion from membership of The League;

92.2.10 order a withdrawal or loss of benefit otherwise available to members of The League e.g. basic award or ladder payment;

92.2.11 impose an embargo on registration of Players;

92.2.12 order any other sanction as the Disciplinary Commission may think fit; and

92.2.13 order that interest be payable on any sums awarded under this Regulation for such period and at such rates as the Disciplinary Commission thinks fit.

92.3 These sanctions may be imposed immediately or may be deferred or suspended for such period and on such terms as the Disciplinary Commission shall decide.

92.4 At any time a Disciplinary Commission may determine (either of its own accord or as a result of representations from a person, Club or club and in any event in its sole discretion) that if the complaint is upheld, it may wish to exercise the power under Regulation 92.2.5 to award compensation. If the Disciplinary Commission so determines, it shall notify the parties to the proceedings and the potential recipient(s) of this fact. The Disciplinary Commission may then make appropriate directions as to the receipt of evidence of loss from the relevant recipient(s) as well as directions on the receipt of evidence in response from the parties to the proceedings.

92.5 The Disciplinary Commission shall have the power to abridge the time period set out in Regulation 94.3 (time limits for appeal) if there is a compelling reason why the appeal (if any) needs to be concluded expeditiously.

92.6 Any financial sanction and any order for costs shall be paid to The League within 14 days of the date on which the sanction or costs were imposed. Any compensation shall be paid in accordance with the order of the Disciplinary Commission. 

I ask you will Galway bate Mayo? Not if they have Willie Joe...they haven't a hope of beating Mayo! 

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Reesh1867

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Sheffield Wednesday
#10 14/11/2019 at 17:00

They're accusing the club of dishonesty.

That's not good
Andyben, 14/11/2019 at 16:52


However the club will have sought both legal and professional accounting advice to submit the accounts including this transaction so the EFL are now accusing people who adhere to professional standards of dishonesty which is a hell of a statement. Could get bloody this.  

Consilio et Animis 

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Baresi

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Sheffield Wednesday
#11 14/11/2019 at 17:09

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/5041 8776

Beeb reporting club has stated they'll "vigorously defend" the charges. 

I ask you will Galway bate Mayo? Not if they have Willie Joe...they haven't a hope of beating Mayo! 

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Reesh1867

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Sheffield Wednesday
#12 14/11/2019 at 17:14

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/5041 8776

Beeb reporting club has stated they'll "vigorously defend" the charges.
Baresi, 14/11/2019 at 17:09


Club made that statement on the OS 

Consilio et Animis 

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Baresi

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Sheffield Wednesday
#13 14/11/2019 at 17:22



However the club will have sought both legal and professional accounting advice to submit the accounts including this transaction so the EFL are now accusing people who adhere to professional standards of dishonesty which is a hell of a statement. Could get bloody this.
Reesh1867, 14/11/2019 at 17:00


Well let's hope DC has some bloody top notch lawyers on the case. 

I ask you will Galway bate Mayo? Not if they have Willie Joe...they haven't a hope of beating Mayo! 

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Beaconowl

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#14 14/11/2019 at 17:30

Seems every c**t has got it in for us.

I presume our accountants are just as liable as we are, in this case? As would be any lawyers involved in providing advice at the time mentioned?  

Post edited on 14/11/2019 at 17:31 by Beaconowl

Its now or never 

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Andyben

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Sheffield Wednesday
#15 14/11/2019 at 18:04

Restraint of Trade.

Fuck the EFL 

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Reesh1867

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Sheffield Wednesday
#16 14/11/2019 at 18:13

Restraint of Trade.

Fuck the EFL
Andyben, 14/11/2019 at 18:04


That's the line I'd go for.  

Consilio et Animis 

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DPCSF

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Sheffield Wednesday
#17 14/11/2019 at 18:19

Should’ve accepted it last season same as Brum, deduction of points then made fuck all difference.

There has to be some legal challenge in the way clubs aren’t allowed to spend their own money whilst clubs in the same division relegated down from the Prem can splurge 3yrs cash in one transfers window.

We also need to get a bunch of monks in to piss in corners/ goalposts, sacrifice cats or whatever it takes as the club is taking kickings from all areas, the hex is never ending, 

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Hirsty's 12th Pint

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#18 14/11/2019 at 18:19

Derby will not be charged. We will be docked 12 points and ultimately relegated and then next season FFP will be abolished.

It's the Wednesday way.

Just looked and Sky Bet have us 100-1 to be relegated. May utilise my £10 free bet I have.  

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Epworthowl

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#19 14/11/2019 at 18:20

Lets hope we do.

The EFL think they are above the law and someone has to stand up to them...Looks like it's going to be us. 

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NorthShieldsOwl

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#20 14/11/2019 at 18:50

Knowing our luck, EFL may introduce a new rule sanctioning the club to a limit in how much can can spend on lawyers questioning their decision 🙄. Cocks.  

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tylluan

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Sheffield Wednesday
#21 14/11/2019 at 18:53



However the club will have sought both legal and professional accounting advice to submit the accounts including this transaction so the EFL are now accusing people who adhere to professional standards of dishonesty which is a hell of a statement. Could get bloody this.
Reesh1867, 14/11/2019 at 17:00


The way I've read the EFL statement is they're saying there's a discrepancy on the ground sale date and should it have been included in the 17/18 accounts.

Is this the EFL accounting team accusing our accounting team of deliberately falsifying the books?

Reesh, MK, and any other accountant on here...
How would you be professionally reacting to this if you were the one who'd done the books or advised the club?

Would you be waiting to see what develops or straight in with a counter statement declaring an integrity slight against your company? 

Post edited on 14/11/2019 at 19:01 by tylluan

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Reesh1867

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Sheffield Wednesday
#22 14/11/2019 at 19:02



Reesh, MK, and any other accountant on here...
How would you be professionally reacting to this if you were the one who'd done the books or advised the club?

Would you be waiting to see what develops or straight in with a counter statement declaring an integrity slight against your company?
tylluan, 14/11/2019 at 18:53


The fact the EFL signed them off to allow us to sign players suggest their trying to cover their own failings now.

I'd be livid if my professional integrity was questioned, I suspect the Auditors, who signed off the accounts, the tax professionals who advised on the sale of the stadium, the valuers and the legal counsel of the club will all be now establishing their counter arguments and picking at the EFL. 

Consilio et Animis 

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Chelters

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#23 14/11/2019 at 19:15



The way I've read the EFL statement is they're saying there's a discrepancy on the ground sale date and should it have been included in the 17/18 accounts.

Is this the EFL accounting team accusing our accounting team of deliberately falsifying the books?

Reesh, MK, and any other accountant on here...
How would you be professionally reacting to this if you were the one who'd done the books or advised the club?

Would you be waiting to see what develops or straight in with a counter statement declaring an integrity slight against your company?
tylluan, 14/11/2019 at 18:53


Well as an auditor I would be checking my PI policy to be honest.

Much as it pains me to say it, based on the information publicly available in the accounts, the inclusion of it in 2017/18 looks odd. But the auditors signed off on it so the EFL must have some info they don’t, or have the same info and interpreted it differently.

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pollhammer3

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#24 14/11/2019 at 19:16

Any ideas on timescale as to how this will play out?  

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Greno

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#25 14/11/2019 at 19:22



The way I've read the EFL statement is they're saying there's a discrepancy on the ground sale date and should it have been included in the 17/18 accounts.

Is this the EFL accounting team accusing our accounting team of deliberately falsifying the books?

Reesh, MK, and any other accountant on here...
How would you be professionally reacting to this if you were the one who'd done the books or advised the club?

Would you be waiting to see what develops or straight in with a counter statement declaring an integrity slight against your company?
tylluan, 14/11/2019 at 18:53


The date of the contact is the date of the sale.

People are jumping on the fact that the DC company that ultimately completed the sale was formed after the end of that particular accounting period. If DC personally agreed the purchase before the accounting year end it doesn't matter which entity he's created completed it. It's called novation. 

This is the last time I'm painting on a grin. 

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Reesh1867

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Sheffield Wednesday
#26 14/11/2019 at 19:28

Aye it isn't as though accounting rules and regulations have scope for deferred income, accrued income, contingent liabilities etc is it.

Consilio et Animis 

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Greno

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#27 14/11/2019 at 19:35

Aye it isn't as though accounting rules and regulations have scope for deferred income, accrued income, contingent liabilities etc is it.

Reesh1867, 14/11/2019 at 19:28


Do accounting rules apply to the EFL in the same way that criminal law applies to the FA? Shock

This is the last time I'm painting on a grin. 

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mkowl

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#28 14/11/2019 at 19:42

We can only speculate on this and as a now ex auditor wouldn't want my audit files being poured over seeing the evidence I obtained. Hard enough justifying your opinions half the time to a friendly reviewer without a third party like the FA throwing shit around

Can only hope all said boxes are ticked

Maguire saying it's strange that the money wasn't paid straightaway, I showed him that for Derby it just went round in a circke 

Happy clapping for 4 years more than Emre 

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mkowl

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#29 14/11/2019 at 19:44



Do accounting rules apply to the EFL in the same way that criminal law applies to the FA? Shock
Greno, 14/11/2019 at 19:35


I think the Wednesday rule works

If in doubt fuck em over 

Happy clapping for 4 years more than Emre 

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Reesh1867

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Sheffield Wednesday
#30 14/11/2019 at 19:46

We can only speculate on this and as a now ex auditor wouldn't want my audit files being poured over seeing the evidence I obtained. Hard enough justifying your opinions half the time to a friendly reviewer without a third party like the FA throwing shit around

Can only hope all said boxes are ticked

Maguire saying it's strange that the money wasn't paid straightaway, I showed him that for Derby it just went round in a circke
mkowl, 14/11/2019 at 19:42


I assume when Maguire bought his house he paid for it on the spot.....?  

Consilio et Animis 

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Andyben

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Sheffield Wednesday
#31 14/11/2019 at 19:47

Maguire knows the square route of fuck all.

Did he expect a cheque paid for the whole amount?


Greno is spot on about novation.

Also no requirement to complete and register at Land Registry within a certain date. Allows for deferral of any stamp duty.

EFL will lose.


But they'll make sure we do too 

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P_O_T_R

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#32 14/11/2019 at 19:47

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Greno

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#33 14/11/2019 at 19:50



I assume when Maguire bought his house he paid for it on the spot.....?
Reesh1867, 14/11/2019 at 19:46


Of course he did Bigsmile

This is the last time I'm painting on a grin. 

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mkowl

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#34 14/11/2019 at 19:51



The date of the contact is the date of the sale.

People are jumping on the fact that the DC company that ultimately completed the sale was formed after the end of that particular accounting period. If DC personally agreed the purchase before the accounting year end it doesn't matter which entity he's created completed it. It's called novation.
Greno, 14/11/2019 at 19:22


I have to say Greno whilst reporting the substance of a transaction over legal form is the basis of accounting, the sale of a property is one you would want legal title proof of for occurrence.

The extension of the year end AND then late filing AND then this sale and lease back transaction makes this a tad eyebrow raising as much as I want to back Wednesday on this

Bottom line is only a few folk are party to the evidence on this and without that evidence it is pure speculation by all of us 

Happy clapping for 4 years more than Emre 

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mkowl

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#35 14/11/2019 at 19:53



I assume when Maguire bought his house he paid for it on the spot.....?
Reesh1867, 14/11/2019 at 19:46


If he did that in a Uni lecturer salary he must have inherited well 

Happy clapping for 4 years more than Emre 

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Reesh1867

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#36 14/11/2019 at 19:54

Can I just add


FUCK THE EFL 

Consilio et Animis 

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mkowl

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#37 14/11/2019 at 20:00

Maguire knows the square route of fuck all.

Did he expect a cheque paid for the whole amount?


Greno is spot on about novation.

Also no requirement to complete and register at Land Registry within a certain date. Allows for deferral of any stamp duty.

EFL will lose.


But they'll make sure we do too
Andyben, 14/11/2019 at 19:47


Groups do it all the time, they will transfer assets between companies and leave it standing on inter co loan account.

If he'd wanted DC could have loaned money to Sheffield 3, it could have paid for the stadium to SWFC, then Swfc could repay DC.  

Happy clapping for 4 years more than Emre 

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mkowl

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#38 14/11/2019 at 20:00

Steve Gibson on hearing the newsWanker

Happy clapping for 4 years more than Emre 

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Reesh1867

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#39 14/11/2019 at 20:06

Gibson is a hypocritical pube headed tramp  

Consilio et Animis 

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Andyben

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#40 14/11/2019 at 20:15

Some proper shithousing going on by our 'fans' on Twitter  

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Greno

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#41 14/11/2019 at 20:22



I have to say Greno whilst reporting the substance of a transaction over legal form is the basis of accounting, the sale of a property is one you would want legal title proof of for occurrence.

The extension of the year end AND then late filing AND then this sale and lease back transaction makes this a tad eyebrow raising as much as I want to back Wednesday on this

Bottom line is only a few folk are party to the evidence on this and without that evidence it is pure speculation by all of us
mkowl, 14/11/2019 at 19:51


I agree totally.

The accountants and the auditors would have been privy to the evidence you would hope. If not the EFL charge would be the thin end of a very shitty stick. 

This is the last time I'm painting on a grin. 

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DPCSF

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Sheffield Wednesday
#42 14/11/2019 at 20:28

Any ideas on timescale as to how this will play out?
pollhammer3, 14/11/2019 at 19:16


April/ May 2020, will depend on how many points we need for promotion. 

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Andyben

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Sheffield Wednesday
#43 14/11/2019 at 20:28

There was speculation that the accounts were held back pending approval of the ground sale. Whether by the Auditors or the EFL.

I've seen nothing since then to dissuade me otherwise 

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Greno

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#44 14/11/2019 at 20:34

There was speculation that the accounts were held back pending approval of the ground sale. Whether by the Auditors or the EFL.

I've seen nothing since then to dissuade me otherwise
Andyben, 14/11/2019 at 20:28


If (big if) that speculation is true then EFL haven't got a leg to stand on.

They either have to admit they made a huge mistake or question the integrity of the auditors (dangerous ground). 

This is the last time I'm painting on a grin. 

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Beaconowl

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#45 14/11/2019 at 20:37

Which Auditors do we use? I presume it is not a tin pot outfit? 

Its now or never 

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DPCSF

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Sheffield Wednesday
#46 14/11/2019 at 20:37

The most annoying of this whole bollocks is it only came in when DC rocked up with his money, when we had fuck all clubs could spend what they wanted without giving a toss. DC also had to start from scratch as the club had been under invested for a number of years, other teams just needed a top up.

Still don’t get how they can stop clubs spending whilst handing parachute money to others that dwarf what we can spend. At the end of the day DC has the money, he should be allowed to spend it, it just needs rules to stop owners loading the clubs with debt.

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Greno

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#47 14/11/2019 at 20:44

Which Auditors do we use? I presume it is not a tin pot outfit?
Beaconowl , 14/11/2019 at 20:37


BHP Ltd.

Large firm but not bent like the big 4 and Grant Thornton.

Incidentally, they were formed in 1867. 

Post edited on 14/11/2019 at 20:46 by Greno

This is the last time I'm painting on a grin. 

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mkowl

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#48 14/11/2019 at 20:58



I agree totally.

The accountants and the auditors would have been privy to the evidence you would hope. If not the EFL charge would be the thin end of a very shitty stick.
Greno, 14/11/2019 at 20:22


It is an interesting one, the EFL statement says that the disciplinary charge is subsequent to a review of documents provided by the club. My hope was that these documents would show unequivocally that the technical accounting considerations you are right about were adequately addressed.

Though be fun if the EFL start questioning the professional integrity of others. The authorities might get away with riding roughshod over players with the lower burden of proof - this is accounts there is one fucking standard and as you know interpretation / judgement is not black and white.

The accountants / auditors / lawyers / surveyors won't be rolling over and throw in the PI insurers lawyers joining in.  

Happy clapping for 4 years more than Emre 

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Beaconowl

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#49 14/11/2019 at 21:16



BHP Ltd.

Large firm but not bent like the big 4 and Grant Thornton.

Incidentally, they were formed in 1867.
Greno, 14/11/2019 at 20:44


Thanks Greno, I am not familiar with them. Do you know if they Audit other clubs? 

Its now or never 

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Reesh1867

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#50 14/11/2019 at 21:20

Doubtful, localish firm  

Consilio et Animis 

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mkowl

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#51 14/11/2019 at 21:32

Doubtful, localish firm
Reesh1867, 14/11/2019 at 21:20


Office in Leeds

Got a good client off em Bigsmile

Happy clapping for 4 years more than Emre 

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Andyben

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Sheffield Wednesday
#52 14/11/2019 at 21:36



If (big if) that speculation is true then EFL haven't got a leg to stand on.

They either have to admit they made a huge mistake or question the integrity of the auditors (dangerous ground).
Greno, 14/11/2019 at 20:34


Don't think we were fined or sanctioned by Companies House for late filing were we?

That would suggest CH was aware of the reason for the delay.

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Reesh1867

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#53 14/11/2019 at 21:37



Office in Leeds

Got a good client off em Bigsmile
mkowl, 14/11/2019 at 21:32


Chesterfield based aren't they and on Rutland Road.  

Consilio et Animis 

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Andyben

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#54 14/11/2019 at 21:38

Used to look after BHP Billiton, but that were a massive mining company  

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KingMong

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#55 14/11/2019 at 21:51

This is about the integrity of the info that has been provided, and the fact that the timings don’t align. So, it’s a question mark over the validity of the info.

It COULD be a major issue if we have messed up in this. And a lot of necks will be on the line. But, this will get dragged out anyway.

As my mate just said. Us and Derby have done the same thing, but it would be just like Wednesday to mess up the paperwork! 

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mkowl

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#56 14/11/2019 at 22:07

It is questioning basic fundamentals of how accounts are put together within the framework of accounting standards FRS 102.

It's a 60m fucking transaction so not one you just tick and move on from

So you would hope the ducks were correctly aligned in a pattern 

Happy clapping for 4 years more than Emre 

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Tank_Owl

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Sheffield Wednesday
#57 14/11/2019 at 22:16

So in summary and following his goal on Saturday FF will be banned for the rest of the season, we will be docked the points we have collected so far, we will have to play behind closed doors and be under an embargo until England win the World Cup.

That's fair to any EFL leach creaming a salary off the game.

So yes we need to give EFL and SAG/ SYP/ the Council as good as they give us in as many ways as we can, which is pretty limited.😕 

Post edited on 14/11/2019 at 22:16 by Tank_Owl

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mkowl

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#58 15/11/2019 at 06:45

So the good news is the Labour party manifesto is now fully costed and funded.

The really good news is our auditors are signing it off as true and fair NinjaThumbsup (joke alert for any lawyers out there)

Not sure I want my Mrs knowing my browsing history nevermind the Govt owning it  

Happy clapping for 4 years more than Emre 

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P_O_T_R

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#59 15/11/2019 at 06:49

This is about the integrity of the info that has been provided, and the fact that the timings don’t align. So, it’s a question mark over the validity of the info.

It COULD be a major issue if we have messed up in this. And a lot of necks will be on the line. But, this will get dragged out anyway.

As my mate just said. Us and Derby have done the same thing, but it would be just like Wednesday to mess up the paperwork!
KingMong, 14/11/2019 at 21:51


Derby have gained Rooney out of itLaugh

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MPB

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#60 15/11/2019 at 08:34

The way that statement reads, the EFL have charged us with breaching the rule of over spending. We say we haven’t broken any rules. Our legal team says we’ll be fine and will prove that to be the case.

That little bubble permed umpah lumpah fucker’s been a right busy little snitch bitch ain’t he, he won’t stop until someone pays for his ineptitude in wasting his own failure payments. 

SACK MONK NOW!!!! OH, AND FUCK THE EFL!!!! 

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