A New Group of Attention Seekers

[Andyben]

44 minutes ago, Beaconowl said:

He is fairly new to this forum, he couldve missed it?

Ignorance is no excuse.

We didn't cancel the mass land grab and genocide in North America just because the Iroqui hadn't invented the wheel or Brinze...

[Andyben]

1 minute ago, Snap said:

😂😂😂 Well I don't know do I? That's why I asked. Now if you asked me what a 24" CS Schedule 80 LRWE was I honestly wouldn't be so rude, but watter runs easily off a ducks back.😉

Wouldn't ask, not a virgin

[Andyben]

I think @mkowlneeds to do an article for the front page that The Stir, Maguire and anyone else living on a diet of OT horse shit can read and understand the very simply in reality process surrounding the ground sale and the utterly unrelated charge which predates DC and goes back to MM borrowing to assist with cashflow

[Andyben]

I can't be arsed, obviously, but it's gonna be academic once I buy the club and install Boris Johnson as Chairman

[Andyben]

Call me an accountant again and we'll see what trouble really is...

we pay them to count the money we make

[mkowl]

40 minutes ago, Andyben said:

I think @mkowlneeds to do an article for the front page that The Stir, Maguire and anyone else living on a diet of OT horse shit can read and understand the very simply in reality process surrounding the ground sale and the utterly unrelated charge which predates DC and goes back to MM borrowing to assist with cashflow

Can I be paid for it 

[mkowl]

23 minutes ago, Andyben said:

Call me an accountant again and we'll see what trouble really is...

we pay them to protect the money we would squander

Corrected for you 

[mkowl]

26 minutes ago, Snap said:

I agree. All the accountants on here need to get there heads together, write everything down in plain English to spell it out to everyone so the financial illiterate amongst us can clearly understand it instead of persisting with the purposeful obfuscation of the subject in order to show all us dimwits how clever you all are.😂😂😂

Sorry, couldn't resist, forgive me.

Tbh there was so much inaccuracy in your first statement its hard to get back to basics 

Perhaps search some of the older threads in the OO archive and this will give you the detail on the stadium transaction.

I could blow your mind to say I could account for all this without a single pound moving from one bank account to another. In fact its on a thread a few months back around the time the accounts were released.

With a few notable exceptions on Stalk, namely Harrowby Owl, Kobayashi to name a couple the rest is utter shite 

[HoylandOwl]

2 hours ago, Andyben said:

I can't be arsed, obviously, but it's gonna be academic once I buy the club and install Boris Johnson as Chairman

Does he drink Red Bull?

[Andyben]

Dunno about drinking it, but he certainly faced enough of it from the opposite benches 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Andyben

[mkowl]

https://www.change.org/p/an-open-letter-to-the-sheffield-wednesday-community?recruiter=1321674860&recruited_by_id=3110b4e0-827f-11ee-89ea-f95ccd7d102d&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_medium=copylink

[mkowl]

Tonight's missive from the 1867 Group

[Tylluan]

There's so many things wrong with that statement I don't know where to begin.

If they are 'backed' by a interested party it would be like the black ballooners and Ken Bates all over again

Edited November 14, 2023 by Tylluan

[Reesh]

11 hours ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Signed 

Did your young un help you so you didn't dribble?

[Fat Eric]

"Definition of a football terrorist"

😂😂😂

[Andyben]

Use the report button...

[owl4ever1867]

15 hours ago, mkowl said:

https://www.change.org/p/an-open-letter-to-the-sheffield-wednesday-community?recruiter=1321674860&recruited_by_id=3110b4e0-827f-11ee-89ea-f95ccd7d102d&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_medium=copylink

Fuck off (not you MK)

[owl4ever1867]

On 13/11/2023 at 21:45, mkowl said:

https://twitter.com/The1867Group/status/1724178204632420750?t=a42b5zlp3UhwYhgWF68QXQ&s=19

Again Fuck off Wankers.....

(Not you MK)

[Teddy Nickelarse]

15 hours ago, mkowl said:

https://www.change.org/p/an-open-letter-to-the-sheffield-wednesday-community?recruiter=1321674860&recruited_by_id=3110b4e0-827f-11ee-89ea-f95ccd7d102d&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_medium=copylink

'We demand' 🤣

''We have seen our owner lash out at us, the fans, for expressing our discontent and frustration ' our abuse, vitriol and puerile name calling.

[Chelters]

It’s better than where they were before, I’ll give them that. The main thing that grates with me is the contradiction between some of the statements and accusations in the first bit and the request to be respectful (which is spot on). 

[Tylluan]

18 hours ago, holmesfield_owl said:

Unless they are backed by someone with around 100million to buy and run the club then they're irrelevant 

Need at least double that, maybe treble. 1867 want to go beyond the Championship and also be stable. 

"We are asking for a fair chance to compete and succeed in this league and beyond."

[mkowl]

All this simply begs the question of where do we go from here.

1) Chansiri sells out at an acceptable price for him to a new owner with funds

2) Chansiri sells out for £1 but keeps the stadium 

3) Nothing happens but Chansiri keeps adequate funding going

4) Nothing happens but funding is restricted - whether deliberately or not. The end of November will be the next test on that front

5) HMRC force a situation if there is lack of funds and a new owner saves the situation

6) We go into administration or worse

I mean that is the broad brush possibilities 

The crux is no one aside from Chansiri knows a) his price b) his inclination c) his available funds. 

This Club sadly just seems at another crossroads. I have no idea which direction we are going 

[Canterburyowl]

You forgot:

7) Chansiri sells us to some chancer and club ends up like Bury

8 ) Chansiri says fuck this and splashes loads of tuna cash and we get back to back promotions (after going down this season) to the prem

😉

Edited November 16, 2023 by Canterburyowl

[Paul from Wisewood]

30 minutes ago, Snap said:

This 1867 Group have a question and answers section over at that other place. For whatever reason I can't ask anything but what I would like to know is what happens if they turn out to be grunters? I know they are hiding under the cloak of secrecy now, and they have intimated that they will eventually expose themselves but god, can you imagine if they are pigs? A lot of people would end up with egg on their faces, and anyone who'd signed that grubby little petition they have going would have exposed themselves to eternal ridicule.

Well, I can dream can't I?

Can’t imagine many Bertie’s wanting us to get rid of chanser

[mkowl]

Snap 

Lets go to basics

1) Chansiri over the years has pumped in circa 80m into the football club as loans. Actual commitment on top probably includes 40m to acquire the shares from Mandaric (that is not public record).

Over and above this there are significant sums per year he puts into the football club by way of sponsorship and marketing payments.

Thus the largest creditor in the football club accounts ie who is owed money is Chansiri himself.

2) the last accounts to 31st July 22  however also include about 8m in taxes (probably VAT legitimately deferred during covid).

3) There is also a loan of 6m plus accrued interest. It is a moot point what this relates to. Chansiri has stated on the record this is an old sum inherited as a liability relating back to Mandaric's time. It has only been the last couple of years it has been disclosed specifically in the accounts.

4) it would appear this is the loan that is secured against the stadium. It does get confusing because it is shown on the Companies House record of Sheffield 3 Ltd (the company to which the stadium was transferred) even the money itself is a loan to the football club

5) There is nothing unusual in that regard. People who loan money  quite like to have security / charges over assets to protect their funds

6) the partial confusion is that each year the loan gets renewed for another year and a new updated charge is registered. The old ones could in theory be satisfied because there is a new one. This has not arisen. Again not unusual that this does not happen. I can promise in real life I have had client companies with outstanding charges for long settled loans. It doesn't surprise me in this case the lender insists on them remaining.

7) now there is a theoretical possibility it is new loans everytime. And thus the indebtedness is 24m not 6m. There is nothing on the public record that proves or disproves what the actual sum is. I err on it being only 6m and this is a renewed loan each year, but there is a lack of evidence for me to 100% conclude

8 as we know the stadium sale was an attempt to circumvent FFP. You create a profit in the football club by valuing this at 60m. Hence SWFC sold this to Sheffield 3 for this sum but by way of an accounting entry

Dr Intercompany loan 

Cr Sale of stadium

It states this is repaid in 8 annual instalments of 7.5m

At the same time Sheff 3 Limited rents the stadium for (stand to be corrected) 2.5m per annum for 30 years to the football club

9  it is this lease that creates / justifies the value of 60m for the stadium sale. Its never what the plot is worth as houses

10 that lease could be changed, amended, varied at  any time. Chansiri is a party to both sides so can unilaterally cancel the lease if he so chose. It would not budge the stadium sale price

11 when it comes to cash, then if I owe you 7.5m and you owe me 2.5m each year, then actually you owe a net 5m. However the accounting alchemy is that real money does not have to change hands here. I can pretend to pay this and simply post journal entries to create the pretence. 

12) but accounting needs to balance up, so to complete this I pretend that Chansiri is the notional bank manager. By doing this his loan in the football club is effectively reduced, but his loan in Sheffield 3 is increased

13 Basically over time his loan, or part thereof, is moved from one company to the other. The amount isn't changing at this level

14 However his loan overall is still increasing because he is funding the club no different to before

15 Hence none of this stadium stuff matters UNLESS Chansiri only sells the football side and keep the stadium. But the lease could be re-negotiated if that arose

 

[mkowl]

9 minutes ago, Snap said:

I'm going to read that after me tea,

I would have a few beers as well. It will help you get over the fee note I am sending 

[Winco]

1 hour ago, mkowl said:

Snap 

Lets go to basics

1) Chansiri over the years has pumped in circa 80m into the football club as loans. Actual commitment on top probably includes 40m to acquire the shares from Mandaric (that is not public record).

Over and above this there are significant sums per year he puts into the football club by way of sponsorship and marketing payments.

Thus the largest creditor in the football club accounts ie who is owed money is Chansiri himself.

2) the last accounts to 31st July 22  however also include about 8m in taxes (probably VAT legitimately deferred during covid).

3) There is also a loan of 6m plus accrued interest. It is a moot point what this relates to. Chansiri has stated on the record this is an old sum inherited as a liability relating back to Mandaric's time. It has only been the last couple of years it has been disclosed specifically in the accounts.

4) it would appear this is the loan that is secured against the stadium. It does get confusing because it is shown on the Companies House record of Sheffield 3 Ltd (the company to which the stadium was transferred) even the money itself is a loan to the football club

5) There is nothing unusual in that regard. People who loan money  quite like to have security / charges over assets to protect their funds

6) the partial confusion is that each year the loan gets renewed for another year and a new updated charge is registered. The old ones could in theory be satisfied because there is a new one. This has not arisen. Again not unusual that this does not happen. I can promise in real life I have had client companies with outstanding charges for long settled loans. It doesn't surprise me in this case the lender insists on them remaining.

7) now there is a theoretical possibility it is new loans everytime. And thus the indebtedness is 24m not 6m. There is nothing on the public record that proves or disproves what the actual sum is. I err on it being only 6m and this is a renewed loan each year, but there is a lack of evidence for me to 100% conclude

8 as we know the stadium sale was an attempt to circumvent FFP. You create a profit in the football club by valuing this at 60m. Hence SWFC sold this to Sheffield 3 for this sum but by way of an accounting entry

Dr Intercompany loan 

Cr Sale of stadium

It states this is repaid in 8 annual instalments of 7.5m

At the same time Sheff 3 Limited rents the stadium for (stand to be corrected) 2.5m per annum for 30 years to the football club

9  it is this lease that creates / justifies the value of 60m for the stadium sale. Its never what the plot is worth as houses

10 that lease could be changed, amended, varied at  any time. Chansiri is a party to both sides so can unilaterally cancel the lease if he so chose. It would not budge the stadium sale price

11 when it comes to cash, then if I owe you 7.5m and you owe me 2.5m each year, then actually you owe a net 5m. However the accounting alchemy is that real money does not have to change hands here. I can pretend to pay this and simply post journal entries to create the pretence. 

12) but accounting needs to balance up, so to complete this I pretend that Chansiri is the notional bank manager. By doing this his loan in the football club is effectively reduced, but his loan in Sheffield 3 is increased

13 Basically over time his loan, or part thereof, is moved from one company to the other. The amount isn't changing at this level

14 However his loan overall is still increasing because he is funding the club no different to before

15 Hence none of this stadium stuff matters UNLESS Chansiri only sells the football side and keep the stadium. But the lease could be re-negotiated if that arose

 

Fuck me I bet Mrs Mk is dry as the Sahara.

😂

[Andyben]

5 minutes ago, Winco said:

Fuck me I bet Mrs Mk is dry as the Sahara.

😂

Apart from 2pm-6pm every Saturday....

[Winco]

4 minutes ago, Andyben said:

Apart from 2pm-6pm every Saturday....

Double booked pal 

[mkowl]

28 minutes ago, Winco said:

Fuck me I bet Mrs Mk is dry as the Sahara.

😂

Certainly compared to Mrs Winco

[Winco]

6 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Certainly compared to Mrs Winco

Wetter than a spastics chin ah lass pal.

[Reesh]

1 hour ago, Winco said:

Wetter than a spastics chin ah lass pal.

Only when you're out working.

[Andyben]

Its far more than £60m, look at how much the share capital and share premium has increased by as hes converted loans to equity to stay on right side of FFP

[mkowl]

47 minutes ago, Andyben said:

Its far more than £60m, look at how much the share capital and share premium has increased by as hes converted loans to equity to stay on right side of FFP

True 

The full cost so far is the sum of

What he paid to MM for the shares

The loan to equity conversion you mention that I had forgotten about

The o/s loan balance to him in Swfc

The o/s loan balance to him in Sheffield 3 

The moneys put in for sponsorship etc

It is often mooted that could be upto £200m

Current valuation of everything ?

£30m 

Or £1 if he doesn't have any money left 

[HoylandOwl]

13 hours ago, mkowl said:

Snap 

Lets go to basics

1) Chansiri over the years has pumped in circa 80m into the football club as loans. Actual commitment on top probably includes 40m to acquire the shares from Mandaric (that is not public record).

Over and above this there are significant sums per year he puts into the football club by way of sponsorship and marketing payments.

Thus the largest creditor in the football club accounts ie who is owed money is Chansiri himself.

2) the last accounts to 31st July 22  however also include about 8m in taxes (probably VAT legitimately deferred during covid).

3) There is also a loan of 6m plus accrued interest. It is a moot point what this relates to. Chansiri has stated on the record this is an old sum inherited as a liability relating back to Mandaric's time. It has only been the last couple of years it has been disclosed specifically in the accounts.

4) it would appear this is the loan that is secured against the stadium. It does get confusing because it is shown on the Companies House record of Sheffield 3 Ltd (the company to which the stadium was transferred) even the money itself is a loan to the football club

5) There is nothing unusual in that regard. People who loan money  quite like to have security / charges over assets to protect their funds

6) the partial confusion is that each year the loan gets renewed for another year and a new updated charge is registered. The old ones could in theory be satisfied because there is a new one. This has not arisen. Again not unusual that this does not happen. I can promise in real life I have had client companies with outstanding charges for long settled loans. It doesn't surprise me in this case the lender insists on them remaining.

7) now there is a theoretical possibility it is new loans everytime. And thus the indebtedness is 24m not 6m. There is nothing on the public record that proves or disproves what the actual sum is. I err on it being only 6m and this is a renewed loan each year, but there is a lack of evidence for me to 100% conclude

8 as we know the stadium sale was an attempt to circumvent FFP. You create a profit in the football club by valuing this at 60m. Hence SWFC sold this to Sheffield 3 for this sum but by way of an accounting entry

Dr Intercompany loan 

Cr Sale of stadium

It states this is repaid in 8 annual instalments of 7.5m

At the same time Sheff 3 Limited rents the stadium for (stand to be corrected) 2.5m per annum for 30 years to the football club

9  it is this lease that creates / justifies the value of 60m for the stadium sale. Its never what the plot is worth as houses

10 that lease could be changed, amended, varied at  any time. Chansiri is a party to both sides so can unilaterally cancel the lease if he so chose. It would not budge the stadium sale price

11 when it comes to cash, then if I owe you 7.5m and you owe me 2.5m each year, then actually you owe a net 5m. However the accounting alchemy is that real money does not have to change hands here. I can pretend to pay this and simply post journal entries to create the pretence. 

12) but accounting needs to balance up, so to complete this I pretend that Chansiri is the notional bank manager. By doing this his loan in the football club is effectively reduced, but his loan in Sheffield 3 is increased

13 Basically over time his loan, or part thereof, is moved from one company to the other. The amount isn't changing at this level

14 However his loan overall is still increasing because he is funding the club no different to before

15 Hence none of this stadium stuff matters UNLESS Chansiri only sells the football side and keep the stadium. But the lease could be re-negotiated if that arose

 

Thanks MK

[Reesh]

Kieran Maguire has all the information now to create his next module, well done MK

[Chelters]

1 hour ago, Reesh said:

Kieran Maguire has all the information now to create his next module, well done MK

Problem is mk put a debit and credit in the explanation so he’s fucked in terms of understanding it. 

[Reesh]

He struggles with basic GAAP so you're right.

[Andyben]

It's the GAAP between his ears that's the problem 

[Chelters]

Aaah accounting jokes. After all these years this forum has finally peaked. 

[Owling_Wolf]

Mind the GAAP?

[Tylluan]

On 17/11/2023 at 10:23, Andyben said:

It's the GAAP between his ears that's the problem 

 

1 hour ago, Owling_Wolf said:

Mind the GAAP?

Quite a big GAAP between these two posts. 

[Owling_Wolf]

On 17/11/2023 at 12:00, Chelters said:

Aaah accounting jokes. After all these years this forum has finally peaked. 

There's no accounting for taste.   😋

[Skamp]

If you have constipation, be like an accountant and use a pencil and piece of paper to work it out.

[Owling_Wolf]

57 minutes ago, Skamp said:

If you have constipation, be like an accountant and use a pencil and piece of paper to work it out.

And make sure you use the correct end of the pencil.  

[HoylandOwl]

To ensure you're not missing the point?

[Owling_Wolf]

On 19/11/2023 at 19:52, HoylandOwl said:

To ensure you're not missing the point?

Sharp as a...   😉

[HoylandOwl]

Pencil.

[EBRA]

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/save-owls-sheff-weds-fans-fighting-chansiri-2773812
 

One member of the 1867 Group believes while the fans were patient for many years, around 90 per cent no longer support Chansiri and there are genuine worries about the club’s future. “We’re always constantly thinking whether we are going to have a club this time next season,” the campaigner said.
 

 

[Andyben]

90%...😂