Reesh Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 Just now, mkowl said: Again I am not sure what relevance this is to the new investment at Ipswich Wednesday need to go through a post Chansiri phase akin to their post Evans stage to bring everything up to a decent standard first And a stint in administration..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) 1 minute ago, mkowl said: Again I am not sure what relevance this is to the new investment at Ipswich Wednesday need to go through a post Chansiri phase akin to their post Evans stage to bring everything up to a decent standard first No they don't. What have Ipswich's new owners done different to what DC has this season? Edited March 28 by Andyben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) @mkowl Mckenna joined Ipswich Dec 21 so just about two years ahead of Rohl. Under him they finished 11th that season, which is exactly where they were after sacking Paul Cook in December before appointing McKenna. Since then they've picked up experienced freebies (like Luongo), spent on younger players and signed PL youngsters on loan to improve the squad. They lost £20m in last accts, and spent £20m on wages in same period and spent fuck all on their ground Any of this sound familiar so far? However....the new owners have also taken out dividends on their preference shares and also the clubs issued securities to the shareholders for their invested funds - something DC would never do.... Edited March 28 by Andyben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 So, are Ipswich doing well because of some fundamentally impressive investment & management by their new owners, or are they simply two years ahead of us on the upturn curve after appointing a great young coach. They're like Leicester when they won the PL, they've taken the previous seasons form into season 2 and after some decent squad rationalisation have improved for a minimal (£5m) outlay. So we don't need to change ownership to mimic them, just keep doing what we've done since Rohl took over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tewksbury Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 1 minute ago, Andyben said: Mckenna joined Ipswich Dec 21 so just about two years ahead of Rohl. Under him they finished 11th that season, which is exactly where they were after sacking Paul Cook in December before appointing McKenna. Since then they've picked up experienced freebies (like Luongo), spent on younger players and signed PL youngsters on loan to improve the squad. They lost £20m in last accts, and spent £20m on wages in same period and spent fuck all on their ground Any of this sound familiar so far? However....the new owners have also taken out dividends on their preference shares and also the clubs issued securities to the shareholders for their invested funds - something DC would never do.... Is anyone else waiting for the penny to drop with all these American investment funds? They're not going to keep pumping money into the bottomless pit that football is, they're going to want a return sooner or later. Wouldn't be surprised if the plan was to get enough clubs in the EPL to get a majority then pull the drawbridge up and the main reason the regulator is coming in is to stop that happening. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) Highest season ticket price at Portman Road this season? £1,122 for an adult. Lowest was £545 Edited March 28 by Andyben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 1 minute ago, Tewksbury said: Is anyone else waiting for the penny to drop with all these American investment funds MK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tylluan Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 3 minutes ago, Tewksbury said: anyone else waiting for the penny to drop with all these American investment funds? They're not going to keep pumping money into the bottomless pit that football is, they're going to want a return sooner or later. I was thinking the same. No private equity firm is going to 'invest' £105m unless they're already seeing a structure on returns. Especially when Bright Path are 'borrowing' money from Simon Group in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraddersTim Posted March 28 Author Share Posted March 28 Not to derail what is an interesting discussion but can anyone answer a question that I've asked the protest group several times without ever getting an answer. They have stated as fact, any times, that there have been firm concrete offers for the club from credible buyers with proof of funds etc and that DC has rejected them/ asked for ludicrous amounts / refused to co operate with them. I've asked them, who? when? what was offered? and the best I've ever had back was "you can't expect us to tell you that". Well to my logic, I can expect it - if they're putting these things out as facts and these bids are dead, then they must have details and these details won't be covered by NDA's etc. Similarly, if a bidder has provided them with this information, then they owe the fans more than to just put it out in the public domain without any sort of context. I've read what DC said about Shaw, and I'm convinced that he was never a credible buyer so does anyone know what the Group are actually alluding to because many people seem to have run with the "DC is intransigent/greedy" line that they've peddled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 Just now, BraddersTim said: They have stated as fact, any times, that there have been firm concrete offers for the club from credible buyers with proof of funds etc and that DC has rejected them/ asked for ludicrous amounts / refused to co operate with them. Wouldn't be public information would it and any rejected bidder like Shaw (if he even did) would generally have an axe to grind. Just leave them to spout their bollocks - says more about them than DC doesn't it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraddersTim Posted March 28 Author Share Posted March 28 Just now, Andyben said: Wouldn't be public information would it and any rejected bidder like Shaw (if he even did) would generally have an axe to grind. Just leave them to spout their bollocks - says more about them than DC doesn't it The point is though that lots of people just accept it on face value and some relatively well known social media accounts amplify it very vocally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 Nothing you can do to stop that is there. No point wasting time / energy on them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tylluan Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) People will accept anything if it fits their narrative or the one they subscribe to. Dave in the pub knows the lass in reception and she says two Indian blokes with large suitcases walked in last Thursday and Chansiri wouldn't see them, mainly because he was in Thailand at the time. Got back in a City Rover with Infosys written all over it. Got to be true ain't it. Dave wouldn't lie Then there's the box watchers who try and do face recognition on anyone new sitting there. Like Carson Yeung that time and thank fuck we dodged that bullet. And don't forget that Arab in full white buying a pork sarnie from Beres. Edited March 28 by Tylluan 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraddersTim Posted March 28 Author Share Posted March 28 15 minutes ago, Andyben said: Nothing you can do to stop that is there. No point wasting time / energy on them We do have a 41 page thread about them 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickswfc Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 15 minutes ago, Tylluan said: People will accept anything if it fits their narrative or the one they subscribe to. "Rohl is going to walk because of the facilities" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 6 minutes ago, BraddersTim said: We do have a 41 page thread about them 😂 But there's no way to confirm either way whether DC has or hasn't so why bother. The other shit they spout we can often prove incorrect. That's the difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 4 minutes ago, nickswfc said: "Rohl is going to walk because of the facilities" They're like all those shows on the Discovery Channel, like Curse of Oak Island. "I found a piece of metal, it looks like it may have been from a chain hoist from the 13-17 century" very quickly becomes "we've found part of the chain that the Knights Templar used to transport the Ark of the Covenant of a ship before burying it here on oak island" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 28 minutes ago, BraddersTim said: Not to derail what is an interesting discussion but can anyone answer a question that I've asked the protest group several times without ever getting an answer. They have stated as fact, any times, that there have been firm concrete offers for the club from credible buyers with proof of funds etc and that DC has rejected them/ asked for ludicrous amounts / refused to co operate with them. I've asked them, who? when? what was offered? and the best I've ever had back was "you can't expect us to tell you that". Well to my logic, I can expect it - if they're putting these things out as facts and these bids are dead, then they must have details and these details won't be covered by NDA's etc. Similarly, if a bidder has provided them with this information, then they owe the fans more than to just put it out in the public domain without any sort of context. I've read what DC said about Shaw, and I'm convinced that he was never a credible buyer so does anyone know what the Group are actually alluding to because many people seem to have run with the "DC is intransigent/greedy" line that they've peddled. I am aware of one, though not given that info from anyone linked to a protest group The problem is Chansiri wants investors to make an heads of term offer without any access to information beyond the statutory accounts. Can they do that, ordinarily there would be recourse to a bit more information, clearly not full due diligence level as that would arise post the offer being made But there would be a bit more than accounts that are 8 months out of date and for a different league Credibility works both ways and I am not sure Chansiri is perceived as a person you could do a deal with if he won't give info to even make an offer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 57 minutes ago, Andyben said: So, are Ipswich doing well because of some fundamentally impressive investment & management by their new owners, or are they simply two years ahead of us on the upturn curve after appointing a great young coach. They're like Leicester when they won the PL, they've taken the previous seasons form into season 2 and after some decent squad rationalisation have improved for a minimal (£5m) outlay. So we don't need to change ownership to mimic them, just keep doing what we've done since Rohl took over. Maybe a bit of both The two work side by side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) 1 minute ago, mkowl said: Maybe a bit of both The two work side by side So you agree that DC should keep doing exactly what he is then? Obviously without taking cash out of the club like the Ipswich investors are... Edited March 28 by Andyben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reesh Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 3 minutes ago, mkowl said: I am aware of one, though not given that info from anyone linked to a protest group The problem is Chansiri wants investors to make an heads of term offer without any access to information beyond the statutory accounts. Can they do that, ordinarily there would be recourse to a bit more information, clearly not full due diligence level as that would arise post the offer being made But there would be a bit more than accounts that are 8 months out of date and for a different league Credibility works both ways and I am not sure Chansiri is perceived as a person you could do a deal with if he won't give info to even make an offer Do you hate Chansiri? It seems an underlying theme to your posts, you weren't this disparaging about the likes of MM, Les or Dave Allen.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Reesh said: I am not sure Chansiri is perceived as a person you could do a deal with Ask Mandaric who's bought and sold more clubs then Brian Potter and Den Perry combined Edited March 28 by Andyben 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 1 hour ago, Reesh said: Do you hate Chansiri? It seems an underlying theme to your posts, you weren't this disparaging about the likes of MM, Les or Dave Allen.... I can't remember what I had for tea last night so what I posted 15 years ago may just have escaped me Plus my recent posts have hardly been supportive of either of the 2 incumbents I probably joined the forums post Allen No I don't hate Chansiri, do I think we should be in a fucking better position after spunking £150m - like most I think its a fair question to ask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazapeps Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 3 hours ago, Andyben said: Highest season ticket price at Portman Road this season? £1,122 for an adult. Lowest was £545 Last seasons prices here ITFC SEASON TICKETS 2023/24 - FlipBooklets Next season prices here 401d19f0-ec4d-11ee-840a-856d30e7c124.pdf (amazonaws.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 Second link is renewals only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazapeps Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 4 minutes ago, Andyben said: Second link is renewals only Yep, seems like prices for new season tickets will follow after that. Though given they sold out this season and I think have a waiting list wouldn't leave many at all at new prices Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reesh Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 18 minutes ago, bazapeps said: Last seasons prices here ITFC SEASON TICKETS 2023/24 - FlipBooklets Next season prices here 401d19f0-ec4d-11ee-840a-856d30e7c124.pdf (amazonaws.com) Here she is.. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 19 minutes ago, bazapeps said: Yep, seems like prices for new season tickets will follow after that. Though given they sold out this season and I think have a waiting list wouldn't leave many at all at new prices Did they and do they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoylandOwl Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 4 hours ago, Andyben said: Highest season ticket price at Portman Road this season? £1,122 for an adult. Lowest was £545 STOP IT, that can't be right can it..... 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tewksbury Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 1 hour ago, bazapeps said: Last seasons prices here ITFC SEASON TICKETS 2023/24 - FlipBooklets Next season prices here 401d19f0-ec4d-11ee-840a-856d30e7c124.pdf (amazonaws.com) Bet the gimp block sold out fast. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reesh Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 1 minute ago, Tewksbury said: Bet the gimp block sold out fast. Did you manage to secure your ticket? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tewksbury Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 14 minutes ago, Reesh said: Did you manage to secure your ticket? No, it's only renewals at the minute. Have to wait for you to get yours first. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reesh Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 6 minutes ago, Tewksbury said: No, it's only renewals at the minute. Have to wait for you to get yours first. You're funny....like a little West Yorkshire retard all on his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrolMong Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 9 hours ago, mkowl said: I am aware of one, though not given that info from anyone linked to a protest group The problem is Chansiri wants investors to make an heads of term offer without any access to information beyond the statutory accounts. Can they do that, ordinarily there would be recourse to a bit more information, clearly not full due diligence level as that would arise post the offer being made But there would be a bit more than accounts that are 8 months out of date and for a different league Credibility works both ways and I am not sure Chansiri is perceived as a person you could do a deal with if he won't give info to even make an offer That is very much true. Chansiri has wanted a formal offer without allowing those suitors access to information. And it’s more than one party that has faced this too. Chansiri’s stance is actually that when he gets an offer he likes, he will open up the books. No one has got to that stage. No one also knows if he is willing to negotiate after any prospective owner does there own due diligence. He’s also fairly steadfast on what he thinks the value of the club is in its current state. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 10 hours ago, KrolMong said: That is very much true. Chansiri has wanted a formal offer without allowing those suitors access to information. And it’s more than one party that has faced this too. Chansiri’s stance is actually that when he gets an offer he likes, he will open up the books. No one has got to that stage. No one also knows if he is willing to negotiate after any prospective owner does there own due diligence. He’s also fairly steadfast on what he thinks the value of the club is in its current state. It seems Chansiri wants at least what he has put in. I mean I get that would be your opening gambit but you would hope he accepts that no one would pay that. The offer I was told about offered say 30% of said sum upfront with the potential for a substantial pay out if we got to the Premier League - but it got reduced by 10% each year it took. I am no valuation expert, don't profess to be, but to my accountants eye it seemed OK as an opening purchase offer gambit reflecting the current position. Based on the available information of the stat accounts and some educated guesses But given the 2 figures are poles apart, any semblance of negotiation was abandoned And that is a point I was making, if Chansiri's funds were reflected more in the infrastructure, the company had a decent management reporting structure and run less autocratically, then a purchaser would pay for that. Want they won't pay for is to cover the past excess losses that Chansiri racked up needlessly. Chansiri is basically saying they should Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy Nickelarse Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 (edited) 23 hours ago, Tylluan said: People will accept anything if it fits their narrative or the one they subscribe to. 23 hours ago, nickswfc said: "Rohl is going to walk because of the facilities" "Musaba and Gassama have massive 50% sell on fees." 🤣 "We don't own our own ground" Edited March 29 by Teddy Nickelarse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 4 hours ago, mkowl said: It seems Chansiri wants at least what he has put in. I mean I get that would be your opening gambit but you would hope he accepts that no one would pay that. The offer I was told about offered say 30% of said sum upfront with the potential for a substantial pay out if we got to the Premier League - but it got reduced by 10% each year it took. I am no valuation expert, don't profess to be, but to my accountants eye it seemed OK as an opening purchase offer gambit reflecting the current position. Based on the available information of the stat accounts and some educated guesses But given the 2 figures are poles apart, any semblance of negotiation was abandoned And that is a point I was making, if Chansiri's funds were reflected more in the infrastructure, the company had a decent management reporting structure and run less autocratically, then a purchaser would pay for that. Want they won't pay for is to cover the past excess losses that Chansiri racked up needlessly. Chansiri is basically saying they should I wouldn't sell at that. Tell them to go back with £30m for 49%. With guaranteed option to buy 51% for £50m in three years, which exercises sooner if get to PL which would trigger a £50m additional payment. During option period, new investors match DC £1:£1 on running costs and commit £5m pa to transfer budget. Otherwise they plainly don't have funds to take club forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 24 minutes ago, Andyben said: I wouldn't sell at that. Tell them to go back with £30m for 49%. With guaranteed option to buy 51% for £50m in three years, which exercises sooner if get to PL which would trigger a £50m additional payment. During option period, new investors match DC £1:£1 on running costs and commit £5m pa to transfer budget. Otherwise they plainly don't have funds to take club forward. But then I wouldn't buy at 150m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 (edited) It's not just buying, it's running it and paying for it Like I've said before,to buy it will cosr£250m+ over next five seasons. And anyone who doesn't think that and won't pay that will see us go under and lose the lot Edited March 29 by Andyben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 34 minutes ago, Andyben said: It's not just buying, it's running it and paying for it Like I've said before,to buy it will cosr£250m+ over next five seasons. And anyone who doesn't think that and won't pay that will see us go under and lose the lot I don't disagree on that But bearing these on going costs the buyer isn't going to be keen on paying for historic losses in addition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tylluan Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 3 hours ago, Teddy Nickelarse said: "We don't own our own ground" That's the one. That's the absolute nailed on response you'll get from anyone who's on the 1867 bus when you've steamrolled over every other topic they bring up. We don't own our own ground and Chansiri is taking millions out of the club in 'rent'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 3 minutes ago, Tylluan said: That's the one. That's the absolute nailed on response you'll get from anyone who's on the 1867 bus when you've steamrolled over every other topic they bring up. We don't own our own ground and Chansiri is taking millions out of the club in 'rent'. The concept of common control companies a bit too technical for them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reesh Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Todays efforts by the mongs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 7 hours ago, mkowl said: I don't disagree on that But bearing these on going costs the buyer isn't going to be keen on paying for historic losses in addition Historic losses? They're not paying for that tho are they. If they had the £250m needed for next5yrs then they'd pay what DC wants. The cost for the club and ground is almost inconsequential compared to the running costs and 500% increase in owners investment pa needed to get us to the Prem. Otherwise they're just after a bargain and within 2yrs we'll be back in High Court steps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skamp Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 Come here, there's more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoylandOwl Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 So. More stuff based on zero fact. Brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 11 hours ago, Andyben said: Historic losses? They're not paying for that tho are they. If they had the £250m needed for next5yrs then they'd pay what DC wants. The cost for the club and ground is almost inconsequential compared to the running costs and 500% increase in owners investment pa needed to get us to the Prem. Otherwise they're just after a bargain and within 2yrs we'll be back in High Court steps. Well they are if Chansiri wants ALL the money back he has provided. You agree his director loans have covered in the main operating losses. I don't disagree that any new owner needs very deep pockets, but if they have a pot of 300m, then they will want to allocate it 50m for the shares in SWFC 250m to spend on the playing side and infrastructure Not 50m for the shares 100m to repay the director loans to Chansiri 150m left to spend on the Club And for me a deal of 50m for the shares in the main entity and Sheffield 3, Chansiri taking a skinhead to his loans, plus a contingent payment on reaching the EPL is a fair market value and not on the cheap If Chansiri does not see that as a fair selling value then not a lot anyone can do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reesh Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 Like every Sheffielder you've previously slated you've fallen into their mentality.... Wanting things on the cheap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 5 minutes ago, Skamp said: Come here, there's more Nah fans site Owlsonline member Mkowl reckons it will go up 15%. Asked why - well I saw a stupid number of 7.5% on another site so thought I would just double it and then say a source at the Club told me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrolMong Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 What does everyone think a fair price is for us? So, imagine you have a half a billion knocking about. What are you offering for Wednesday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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