Euros 2024

[80s Owl]

9 minutes ago, Otto_Man said:

Think I mist be in the minority because overall I think it's been a great tournament with some really enjoyable games. Yeah England have been a slog to watch at times, but when aren't they under Southgate?

There's been a few decent games with Spain/France a highlight but the latter stage games have been a bit flat, some players become household names after a tournament but no one has really stood out, the young lad from Spain grabbed the headlines for a while but not much more.

[KrolMong]

I have no issues with the result. Nor with the performance if I am honest. Spain play with a swagger, they change positions to expose weaknesses and they dominate the ball. To beat a team playing like that you have to defend very well, ride your luck and when you get half chances, try and execute on them.

First half was very tight. Second half, after Rodri went off, just opened the game up. They pressed harder, they were winning the ball high up the pitch, they made us narrow and flipped the ball into the wide spaces (both Spain goals came that way). When we got through the press we got right on top of there back four.

It was a narrow but deserved defeat, and yet, the Rice header and Guehi follow up, the Watkins mis control could have salvaged something.

In terms of player performances. Stones, Guehi, Shaw and Walker were good. Saka was good again. Pickford good. Palmer good when he came on.

But, Kane and Mainoo were dreadful. Foden and Bellingham poor. 

Well done to Spain, best team won the tournament.

[80s Owl]

15 minutes ago, KrolMong said:

I have no issues with the result. Nor with the performance if I am honest. Spain play with a swagger, they change positions to expose weaknesses and they dominate the ball. To beat a team playing like that you have to defend very well, ride your luck and when you get half chances, try and execute on them.

First half was very tight. Second half, after Rodri went off, just opened the game up. They pressed harder, they were winning the ball high up the pitch, they made us narrow and flipped the ball into the wide spaces (both Spain goals came that way). When we got through the press we got right on top of there back four.

It was a narrow but deserved defeat, and yet, the Rice header and Guehi follow up, the Watkins mis control could have salvaged something.

In terms of player performances. Stones, Guehi, Shaw and Walker were good. Saka was good again. Pickford good. Palmer good when he came on.

But, Kane and Mainoo were dreadful. Foden and Bellingham poor. 

Well done to Spain, best team won the tournament.

I thought Walker had a poor game, he'd left far too much space down his side for the first goal.

[KrolMong]

3 minutes ago, 80s Owl said:

I thought Walker had a poor game, he'd left far too much space down his side for the first goal.

I didn’t blame Walker for that. Spain had dragged the whole back four across, and when Yamal came inside they sent runners into the box and Walker had to come narrow. It was just a very good piece of football and movement to create the space.

[Sheffieldblue]

12 hours ago, Alan Finney said:

I've been thinking the same, inso much as I was thinking of the top 3 attributes required which would for me would be,

1) Not English.

2) Already seriously minted from his time managing in the game.

3) Not required.

I'd have taken Ancelotti  4/5 years ago, but not now.

Klopp would be a non starter for me, just don't fancy him (or is it already a done deal?).

Pep has to be the one, doesn't he?

You can have Steve Clarke

[Kiwi Owl]

23 hours ago, mkowl said:

I am going to flip that round to say Spain re-took the initiative well after that 10 minutes rather than us drop off.

Southgate will be challenged over his tactics and the conservative approach, but the way they could pick us off not even on the counter attack. 2 scored, 2 decent saves, a couple where they should have done better. 

No England player really deserves any criticism, the goals were not mistakes from anyone, but came from it being 3 on 3 

A new manager to come in, get a system that suits active possession. 

I'll throw a counter to that

After we had scored, think it was Palmer hurried a Spanish player to a mistake, they hurrily kicked the ball out for a throw in. A couple of England players did the Bannan come on wave to the supporters as they were hyped.

The resulting throw in

Walker to Stones, back to Pickford then Pickford hits it too hard for a goal kick

Watkins looks furious with it all.

That was the moment the Spaniards realised we weren't going for it.

15 hours ago, Andyben said:

He played as a winger, with Walker as a regular full back 

So much for the coverage here, Drury and Goodman had us playing a 3-4-1-2. I did wonder if that was right given how wasted we were down the left side.

[mkowl]

7 hours ago, Kiwi Owl said:

I'll throw a counter to that

After we had scored, think it was Palmer hurried a Spanish player to a mistake, they hurrily kicked the ball out for a throw in. A couple of England players did the Bannan come on wave to the supporters as they were hyped.

The resulting throw in

Walker to Stones, back to Pickford then Pickford hits it too hard for a goal kick

Watkins looks furious with it all.

That was the moment the Spaniards realised we weren't going for it.

So much for the coverage here, Drury and Goodman had us playing a 3-4-1-2. I did wonder if that was right given how wasted we were down the left side.

That is a fair point, the reality is probably a bit of both arose.

Though I have seen a couple of clips of Adrian Durham from Talksport and his immediate post match rant at letting the Spanish off the hook. That had to be the instructions, because none of the players are in teams that ordinarily do that. 

I mean I have watched Sheffield Wednesday teams over many years play well, eventually score the first goal then stop. Moore in particular, like Southgate you thought even though we reached the final (and yep Moore won so would argue it was justified) you never felt like either really got the full potential from the squad available.

 

[mkowl]

The other major issue, which the authorities will quietly dismiss, is player fatigue. But with the England players it was noticeable. Likes of Bellingham more mental fatigue. 

Summer tournament football always raises the debate of number of games in the EPL, as much the intensity, the other competitions, the nonsense pre season tours. 

We can criticise Southgate a lot, but the system and style he adopts factors this in. But his failure to use subs then counters it.

Anyway the media will quickly ramp up and hype the new club season. 

[Andyben]

35 minutes ago, mkowl said:

The other major issue, which the authorities will quietly dismiss, is player fatigue. But with the England players it was noticeable. Likes of Bellingham more mental fatigue. 

I'd be surprised if the total number of games played by England players was significantly more than those of Spain, Holland, Germany, France, Portugal etc

[Hirstys 12th Pint]

1 hour ago, mkowl said:

The other major issue, which the authorities will quietly dismiss, is player fatigue. But with the England players it was noticeable. Likes of Bellingham more mental fatigue. 

Summer tournament football always raises the debate of number of games in the EPL, as much the intensity, the other competitions, the nonsense pre season tours. 

We can criticise Southgate a lot, but the system and style he adopts factors this in. But his failure to use subs then counters it.

Anyway the media will quickly ramp up and hype the new club season. 

Bellingham was increasingly a concern for me.  Overhead kick aside thought he was below average.  Appreciate he has had a lot of football over a few years.

I've not seen much of him in Spain and his numbers are excellent but the few games I have seen (Both CL Semis and Final) he has been quite poor.  Obviously a very driven young man but feel he is becoming Billy Big B@ll@x and starting to believe the hype.  Be interesting how he reacts to Mbappe and Vinicicius Jnr being the top 2 at Madrid next season.

[Tylluan]

Just on player fatigue. Italy and Spain have the same number of league games. France, Germany, Netherlands, and Portugal play 4 less. Factor in roughly the same amount of domestic cup and European club games for these players and there's about 6 games difference. Money spinning friendlies play a part but not as much as you think as they tend to be played at 1/2-3/4 pace with loads of subs. The top clubs are using private jets with variable pressure cabins, like medi-jets, so long haul fatigue is negated as much as possible. 

The fatigue comes from having to do something you're not used to doing but also having to learn that in a short space of time. Like weariness from last minute exam cramming. People will go on about they're top level footballers so they should be able to adapt but it's all wrong. The mental capacity it takes to stop yourself from doing something that's been drilled into you day in day out and to be told but I want you to do this now and learn it at half pace in 4 training sessions before the game is immense and exhausting. It's probably the reason why Bellingham and Foden were on each others toes in the group games. 

As a coach you have two basic choices. Come up with a style and find players to suit or look at the players you've got and come up with a style. Coaches of lesser countries have to work with what they've got. Coaches of countries that have an abundance of riches have to make the decision and sometimes get caught in the middle.

[mkowl]

5 hours ago, Andyben said:

I'd be surprised if the total number of games played by England players was significantly more than those of Spain, Holland, Germany, France, Portugal etc

I was meaning across the tournament as a whole and some of those nations hardly pulled up trees (aside from Spain) 

[EastCraigsOwl]

23 hours ago, Sheffieldblue said:

You can have Steve Clarke

At least his team beat Spain.

[mkowl]

4 hours ago, Tylluan said:

Just on player fatigue. Italy and Spain have the same number of league games. France, Germany, Netherlands, and Portugal play 4 less. Factor in roughly the same amount of domestic cup and European club games for these players and there's about 6 games difference. Money spinning friendlies play a part but not as much as you think as they tend to be played at 1/2-3/4 pace with loads of subs. The top clubs are using private jets with variable pressure cabins, like medi-jets, so long haul fatigue is negated as much as possible. 

The fatigue comes from having to do something you're not used to doing but also having to learn that in a short space of time. Like weariness from last minute exam cramming. People will go on about they're top level footballers so they should be able to adapt but it's all wrong. The mental capacity it takes to stop yourself from doing something that's been drilled into you day in day out and to be told but I want you to do this now and learn it at half pace in 4 training sessions before the game is immense and exhausting. It's probably the reason why Bellingham and Foden were on each others toes in the group games. 

As a coach you have two basic choices. Come up with a style and find players to suit or look at the players you've got and come up with a style. Coaches of lesser countries have to work with what they've got. Coaches of countries that have an abundance of riches have to make the decision and sometimes get caught in the middle.

To add its also intensity of the games played as well 

But your point is really that player welfare needs to be factored in and there should be a minimum 2 months proper rest each 12 months. Next year the mooted World Club Championship - every 2 years perhaps - when will that arise ?  

[Gamblor]

5 hours ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said:

Bellingham was increasingly a concern for me.  Overhead kick aside thought he was below average.  Appreciate he has had a lot of football over a few years.

I've not seen much of him in Spain and his numbers are excellent but the few games I have seen (Both CL Semis and Final) he has been quite poor.  Obviously a very driven young man but feel he is becoming Billy Big B@ll@x and starting to believe the hype.  Be interesting how he reacts to Mbappe and Vinicicius Jnr being the top 2 at Madrid next season.

Endrick signs for them next week too.

[JBO]

Jeff?

[HoylandOwl]

10 hours ago, Andyben said:

I'd be surprised if the total number of games played by England players was significantly more than those of Spain, Holland, Germany, France, Portugal etc

Sky sports have said Phil Foden played more games than any other player in the top 5 divisions in Europe. (While I know that’s just one example)

[Andyben]

2 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

Sky sports have said Phil Foden played more games than any other player in the top 5 divisions in Europe. (While I know that’s just one example)

And at no time did he look tired.

[HoylandOwl]

3 minutes ago, Andyben said:

And at no time did he look tired.

There were plenty of others too mate who didn’t across the tournament. I don’t subscribe to that they were all fucked, some clearly were. 
Taking a throw in , at 1-1 with 15 minutes left, when we’d got Spain momentarily rocking, within 18 yards of their goal line, and then wanging it back, to halfway and then playing it back to Pickford showed more of why we didn’t go on and win it for me

[Gamblor]

39 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

There were plenty of others too mate who didn’t across the tournament. I don’t subscribe to that they were all fucked, some clearly were. 
Taking a throw in , at 1-1 with 15 minutes left, when we’d got Spain momentarily rocking, within 18 yards of their goal line, and then wanging it back, to halfway and then playing it back to Pickford showed more of why we didn’t go on and win it for me

We attacked for 5 minutes then Southgate was desperately trying to get Gallagher and Trippier onto the pitch to make us more defensive. 

[Sheffieldblue]

On 16/07/2024 at 13:26, EastCraigsOwl said:

At least his team beat Spain.

Beat them convincingly too. Probably the best Scotland performance I've seen.

Pity the Euro's weren't last summer. The drop in form and injuries cost us big time.

We played all the semi finalists in the last year, 3 in friendlies and losing all 4 knocked the confidence out of the team.

ECO, do you think Clarke should stay? Personally i think its time for a change, try and get David Moyes in.

[EastCraigsOwl]

18 minutes ago, Sheffieldblue said:

Beat them convincingly too. Probably the best Scotland performance I've seen.

Pity the Euro's weren't last summer. The drop in form and injuries cost us big time.

We played all the semi finalists in the last year, 3 in friendlies and losing all 4 knocked the confidence out of the team.

ECO, do you think Clarke should stay? Personally i think its time for a change, try and get David Moyes in.

I think the decision to play higher ranked countries such as England and France in friendlies was the correct one, given the promotion to Nations League A groups. However, there's no denying results went pretty much tits up after we won the 5th match in the Euro qualifiers and basically booked the trip to Germany.

Injuries certainly didn't help but I don't like using that as an excuse. Granted, you can't just go out and buy a replacement, so it can be a genuine reason. I mean, the drop off from Nathan Patterson and Aaron Hickey to Anthony Ralston and Ross McCrorie is quite significant!

Should Clarke stay? I would probably say yes. He signed an extension not so long ago did he not? (I could be wrong!). If he wanted to leave, fine, but I don't think where he's taken the team to should end up with a P45 and a "fuck off".

Moyes is defo an interesting option though. Underappreciated at WHam. I'm not convinced he'll be on the dole for too long.

Perhaps we should grab Klopp. Berti did a decent job back in the day (long term planning over short term results), so why not?!