Owling_Wolf Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 45 minutes ago, Gamblor said: I think it should have been a goal, but surely it needed to go to the referee. It wouldn’t have taken any more time than Atwell took already and it wasn’t a matter of fact decision. Ref gets told he’s offside if interfering and asked to judge whether he is. I thought that at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy Nickelarse Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 4 hours ago, Owling_Wolf said: Nope! 😋 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tylluan Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 You take VAR out of it and it's not a goal. Linesman has put his flag up and ref has gone over and confirmed with him. I suspect what Attwell takes so long over is does he over rule his good mates. At the same time there's the added 'pressure' of dealing with Van Dyke who's expecting a PL crew to give that because Liverpool probably would have had that goal. @Skamp is right. It's not VAR that's the problem. It's the way it's use has been drilled into PL officials (driven in main by Sky pundit scrutiny) Semi automated offsides won't make any difference domestically unless our refs radically change their way of thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoylandOwl Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 I didn’t see the game last night but by reading this thread and looking on social media. Bloody hell! There’s some ‘debate’ isn’t there! I suspect I won’t like what I see when I see it, but I enjoy reading the debate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoylandOwl Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Just watching sky sports news and, apparently Southgate is saying the team aren’t pressing enough as they’re not physically fit enough to do it, as well as not keeping the ball well enough. So we’re unfit/knackered/both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoylandOwl Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Just seen the ‘goal’ from last night. I’m in the offside camp. If Maignan had dived to his left, he’d have dived into the Dutch player. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 1 hour ago, HoylandOwl said: Just watching sky sports news and, apparently Southgate is saying the team aren’t pressing enough as they’re not physically fit enough to do it, as well as not keeping the ball well enough. So we’re unfit/knackered/both? Quite clearly the muppet has not done his 'what to and what not to say' to the media refresher course. If it's possible to lose the dressing room at a finals then boring gareths likely to do just that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tylluan Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 2 hours ago, HoylandOwl said: Just seen the ‘goal’ from last night. I’m in the offside camp. If Maignan had dived to his left, he’d have dived into the Dutch player. If he'd have attempted the dive then the player is offside and interfering. But he doesn't react/move until the ball is over the line because his view is obscured by two French players. If the Dutch player isn't there then his reaction time would have been the same and it would have been a goal. Therefore, under the current offside/interference law interpretation the goal should have stood. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy Nickelarse Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 (edited) 11 hours ago, Alan Finney said: I’m so sorry mate. I have to disagree. The rules and regs are being purposefully used to create confusion and obfuscation amongst the dimwits amongst us. I understand you’re an aficionado amongst us and by no means include you in that comment. Fact of the matter is that it’s a simple game and shouldn’t be used against the people for gain. An attacking player stood in an offside position when the ball is struck by an another attacking player towards goal, where the afore mentioned player is in a position between the ball as it was struck and any part of the goal is offside. Time to stop the crap. 100% with you on the over complication. Player stood in a clearly offside position, in the centre of the action, in front of goal but the current laws of the game invite debate as to whether the attacker was interfering with play - barmy. Setting that aside; for me if the VAR official felt there was the slightest possibilty that the keeper might have been able to reach the ball but for the obstruction - however remote- then he had to disallow the attempt. He had to make a subjective call because of the flawed (IMO) laws. The only unequivocal fault was at the door of the offside Dutch player for allowing this debate because of his positioning - not the VAR official. Edited June 22 by Teddy Nickelarse 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skamp Posted June 22 Author Share Posted June 22 Today then Group F Georgia v Czech Republic 2pm BBC1 Turkey v Portugal 5pm ITV1 Group E Belgium v Romania 8pm ITV1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirstys 12th Pint Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Last game for Danny today. Presume back at Middlewood Road on Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reesh Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 DNR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCraigsOwl Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 The Netherlands 'goal' reminded me of the one we had disallowed during our 1-0 win over Plymouth in League One. All hail consistency! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reesh Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 47 minutes ago, EastCraigsOwl said: The Netherlands 'goal' reminded me of the one we had disallowed during our 1-0 win over Plymouth in League One. All hail consistency! Good comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellsview Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 8 hours ago, HoylandOwl said: Just watching sky sports news and, apparently Southgate is saying the team aren’t pressing enough as they’re not physically fit enough to do it, as well as not keeping the ball well enough. So we’re unfit/knackered/both? And yet I’m watching Portugal at the moment, with a good number of PL players in the side and they don’t look unfit or knackered, in fact they’re running Turkey ragged. That twat has cost us any chance of winning this tournament. The mental damage has been done now, and he’s 100% to blame for it! I’ll be amazed if we win the first knockout game we’re involved in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirstys 12th Pint Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Southgate needs an absolute fooking for the Luke Shaw / Left Back position alone. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Chilwell. Rico Henry, Rico Lewis even all at home / Ocean Beach. Plus Gomez can play there better than Trippier. We all agree that he's a fucking fraud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto_Man Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Belgium v Romania has been a reyt game, Belgium look more English than England. De Bruynes goal was more offside than Lukakus though 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrolMong Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 The rage I have had this last few days has only been intensified by the number of ex pros and managers who have come out and said that England have no identity. I actually disagree. I think we have a very clear identity which is to contain. We got to the World Cup Semi’s with a very functional team. Not much craft and guile, but with a very good back four and keeper and an elite number 9. We were not great with the ball, but good without it, so we wanted to nick games. We then get to the Euro final, same plan, again a very good defensive unit and an elite number 9. We want to nick games, we aren’t going to open teams up for fun. Then we think things are going to change. We get the stirrings of a crop of superstars in Foden, Bellingham, Saka etc. We also have a decline in our defensive unit so what we want to see is a front foot approach. We think we get it in the World Cup in Qatar, we go after France, should win but end up losing. And then we go backwards. Even the lead up to this tournament has been disjointed. And it has all pointed at this unwillingness to want to exploit the talent. And worse still, to get that talent to play a way that is alien to them. Look at our form players this season. Kane, Bayern, front foot pressing team. Sala, Arsenal, same. Foden, City, same. Bellingham, in La Liga, same. Gordon, Newcastle, same. Palmer, Chelsea, same. Southgate has taken that group of players, and got them to do something alien. That’s just madness. What scared me more was when we did press, we ended up with a 30 yard gap to Rice and then a 10 yard gap to the back four. We aren’t playing Maguire, Guehi is quick - they can all squeeze. Football is simple, it’s about scoring more goals than the other team. Our forwards have scored and assisted nearly 200 goals this season. It’s actually double any other team in the competition. So, for Southgate to save his career. He’s either got to get the whole team 20 yards up the pitch, he’s got to get a high press working. Or he properly implements a negative approach and goes to a 5-2-3. And plays players who understand how to play without the ball - which would be the likes of Bowen etc. Some of the players also aren’t helping either. I want to know who is challenging the coach in the build up to games, or in game, half time and post game. Surely when Harry Kane has to go into midfield to get the ball because we are sat on the 18 yard line, he’s got to be saying to the back four, coach or anyone to get up the pitch. I see that at parks football, why can’t a series of pros see this? Now, we do have some major issues as well. We have no left back, Chilwell or Colwill were worth a shout? I understand Southgates point about Philips, but why not try Wharton there? Which allows Rice up the pitch. The TAA experiment is over and he’s only playing if we play a wing back. But, even TAA playing highlights the negative structure because you only need to ping 60 yard diags for if you sit deep. We also have a major issue in our 10 position. All are goal scorers, none are passers. Look at France, Spain, Germany, Portugal and Belgium. All have 10’s who are creators and all we can do is run through teams - which also means Kane has to play that 10 as well because he can pass a ball, and if Kane doesn’t play, people like Ollie Watkins look bad because they need service down the sides in high tempo teams which they just won’t get. I’m not buying this fitness thing, it’s a bullshit excuse and if the manager knows players are not fit, don’t pick them and use the squad. Leave Kane and Saka out if they are struggling, play Palmer, play Watkins. I have a feeling though, after all the hammer that the players and coach have had. We might see a more positive England team on Tuesday, you have to try and win a tournament and not try not to lose a tournament. Southgate has until Tuesday to work that out. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrolMong Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 12 hours ago, HoylandOwl said: Just watching sky sports news and, apparently Southgate is saying the team aren’t pressing enough as they’re not physically fit enough to do it, as well as not keeping the ball well enough. So we’re unfit/knackered/both? That’s a dig at Kane, after Kane said that he didn’t know how to press. Your press is led by your forwards. There’s quite an astonishing stat from the Denmark game. Kane didn’t complete one sprint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBO Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 England will bore their way to the semis then get beat after a superb performance 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 A great post KM. I'd add that at times teams carry an identity that aligns with the manager/head coach. Certainly in this tournament and previous that's endorsed in cautiousness. Look at what happened with us last season, the managers positivity flowed through to the players. KM is so correct GS is on the brink of ruining his career or to be more pertinent narrowing his options moving forward. He is not an elite coach, yes deserves credit for changing the culture within the squad up to now, but there could be a revolt within the camp if he's not careful. BUT of course we can still win it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellsview Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 3 hours ago, Lee said: A great post KM. I'd add that at times teams carry an identity that aligns with the manager/head coach. Certainly in this tournament and previous that's endorsed in cautiousness. Look at what happened with us last season, the managers positivity flowed through to the players. KM is so correct GS is on the brink of ruining his career or to be more pertinent narrowing his options moving forward. He is not an elite coach, yes deserves credit for changing the culture within the squad up to now, but there could be a revolt within the camp if he's not careful. BUT of course we can still win it. Do you genuinely believe that? I think the mental damage has already been done. I think the players no longer believe we can win it, that they are disgruntled, lacking in confidence and haven’t totally bought into Southgate’s system and style of play (whatever that is). If I have one crumb of comfort it’s that we’ve looked good at 0-0 and have dominated games until we go 1-0 up, then the Southgate factor kicks in. We had it 4 years ago v Italy in the final and it’s even more apparent now. I’m not normally this negative but from what I’ve seen of some other teams in this tournament (the standout ones) we are miles behind, and I just don’t see how we can turn things around to compete with them in this competition. Although I’d love to be proved wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Southgate a fraud. England won't win. We're absolutely dogger but you, me all.of us can't do a thing about it so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tylluan Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 (edited) No one in that squad is challenging Southgate or each other at half time or any other time. England have someone who wears an armband but there are no leaders on that pitch. I can't be arsed to look but has anyone in the starting 11 been their club captain this season? At half time they'll all be sat down, squeezing those energy gels into their mouths and probably only half listening because the other half of their brain will probably be thinking about the negative social media impact. And Southgate will just be blabbing on about being more positive in possession and it'll be nothing they haven't heard before. When has a Southgate England ever come out for a second half with a different set of tactics like Denmark did or Ukraine against Slovakia. Even when he changed the front 3 everything stayed the same. Nothing will drastically change for the Slovenia because it will be all about getting out of the group. Then nothing will change in the knockout stage because you don't change in one game football. And when Southgate goes I don't think Potter or Howe will be the answer. I don't think anyone English is. You'll need someone by mid August so that rules anyone in a job out. In order to get the best out of this crop the FA needs to be writing a blank cheque to Klopp's ego for two years. Edited June 23 by Tylluan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skamp Posted June 23 Author Share Posted June 23 Decision time tonight then Final games of Group A Scotland v Hungary 8pm BBC1 Switzerland v Germany 8pm BBC2 As it stands going into these games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrolMong Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 23 minutes ago, Tylluan said: No one in that squad is challenging Southgate or each other at half time or any other time. England have someone who wears an armband but there are no leaders on that pitch. I can't be arsed to look but has anyone in the starting 11 been their club captain this season? At half time they'll all be sat down, squeezing those energy gels into their mouths and probably only half listening because the other half of their brain will probably be thinking about the negative social media impact. And Southgate will just be blabbing on about being more positive in possession and it'll be nothing they haven't heard before. When has a Southgate England ever come out for a second half with a different set of tactics like Denmark did or Ukraine against Slovakia. Even when he changed the front 3 everything stayed the same. Nothing will drastically change for the Slovenia because it will be all about getting out of the group. Then nothing will change in the knockout stage because you don't change in one game football. And when Southgate goes I don't think Potter or Howe will be the answer. I don't think anyone English is. You'll need someone by mid August so that rules anyone in a job out. In order to get the best out of this crop the FA needs to be writing a blank cheque to Klopp's ego for two years. Klopp, or (and I hate to say this) Mourinho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owling_Wolf Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 20 hours ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said: Last game for Danny today. Presume back at Middlewood Road on Monday. Friday, he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reesh Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 1 hour ago, Owling_Wolf said: Friday, he said. That's the players, I suspect Danny will be back before them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirstys 12th Pint Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 4 hours ago, KrolMong said: Klopp, or (and I hate to say this) Mourinho. How about Pep on a 2 year deal until end of World Cup. First year part time while we breeze through WC Qualifiers. We get a world class Coach for 2 years and Pep gets to recharge his batteries year 2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tylluan Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 37 minutes ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said: How about Pep on a 2 year deal until end of World Cup. First year part time while we breeze through WC Qualifiers. We get a world class Coach for 2 years and Pep gets to recharge his batteries year 2. I deliberately stayed away from Pep. There's no doubting his coaching but let's say he's always chosen his clubs wisely and also the players he's been able to buy. Pep plays real life FIFA. I would actually expect Klopp or José to handle the expectation of taking over England and I would also expect the idea of sorting out the most misfiring team in world football would appeal to either ego. Pep doesn't 'need' the England job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCraigsOwl Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 If Lawrence Shankland doesn't get a start for Scotland tonight, he really should tell Steve Clarke to go and fuck himself. What's the point in scoring over 60 goals in the last 2 seasons, being the top scorer in the league, netting in European ties as well as on the international scene and yet, when it comes to the finals, you get binned in favour of a misfiring Pig reject? If he played for Celtic or Rangers, he would be in every single Scotland starting line up. If that wasn't happening, the media would get involved and force the issue. But, nah, he's 'only' a Hearts player (for now), so it doesn't matter. As for tonight, it would be nice to win. There's also an outside chance a draw could be enough (the resulting clash with Portugal in the last 16 would bring things to a prompt ending though!). On that basis, the only way to guarantee elimination is to lose the match. An extremely Scotland-esque way of doing things. Lump on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaconowl Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 3 hours ago, Tylluan said: I deliberately stayed away from Pep. There's no doubting his coaching but let's say he's always chosen his clubs wisely and also the players he's been able to buy. Pep plays real life FIFA. I would actually expect Klopp or José to handle the expectation of taking over England and I would also expect the idea of sorting out the most misfiring team in world football would appeal to either ego. Pep doesn't 'need' the England job If Klopp gets the job then TAA starts every game if fit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tylluan Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 2 hours ago, Beaconowl said: If Klopp gets the job then TAA starts every game if fit So would Gomez and would that be a bad thing if they helped a faster forward momentum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto_Man Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Nowt says you're going for it like 5-4-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaconowl Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 15 minutes ago, Tylluan said: So would Gomez and would that be a bad thing if they helped a faster forward momentum I trust your expertise, Ty. Yes, faster forward momentum is what we need Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto_Man Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Like Wednesday under Moore watching the sweaties I'm so fucking bored Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 3 hours ago, Beaconowl said: If Klopp gets the job then TAA starts every game if fit Klopp won't, IMHO. He's dropped him loads recently 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellsview Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Scotland just do not look capable of scoring from open play. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Swiss goal is great for us "Bosch win and BTTS" lads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto_Man Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 3 minutes ago, Bellsview said: Scotland just do not look capable of scoring from open play. They don't look particularly capable of much to be fair. Not sure if the love in for Billy Gilmour, he's been rubbish imo. Callum Styles on the other hand looks like just what we (Wednesday) are missing in our midfield 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaconowl Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Scotland 70% possession and zero attempts at the goal apparently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraddersTim Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Is Che Adams really a better option for the Scots than Shankland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 3 minutes ago, BraddersTim said: Is Che Adams really a better option for the Scots than Shankland? ECO covered this earlier today. The answer to your question is NO!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tewksbury Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 My new proposed rule change. Simulation. Any player penalised as a result of simulation shall, in the centre circle, at the conclusion of the half in which the offence occurred, be allowed to repeat with full contact the offence for which he was penalised upon the simulating player. Let Chey Adams actually kick that bloke in the head. Within a month all this shite will stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skamp Posted June 23 Author Share Posted June 23 Wednesday under Xisco would beat either team on this performance. Do you think they know the score in Frankfurt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tylluan Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 40 minutes ago, Otto_Man said: Callum Styles on the other hand looks like just what we (Wednesday) are missing in our midfield Styles was on a loan to buy at Sunderland last season, with the price set at £2m, but their multi changes of management put the kybosh on it. He still harbours ambition to play in the Championship but Clarke wants to keep him at Barnsley and they're looking to trigger a contract extension unless someone comes in with a big offer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaconowl Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 4 minutes ago, Skamp said: Wednesday under Xisco would beat either team on this performance. Do you think they know the score in Frankfurt? It’s like watching two fat boxers trying to hurt each other and failing badly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto_Man Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 3 minutes ago, Skamp said: Wednesday under Xisco would beat either team on this performance. Do you think they know the score in Frankfurt? If they do it should be galvanising both teams, only 2 third place teams will be eliminated, rest will go through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaconowl Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 2 minutes ago, Beaconowl said: It’s like watching two fat boxers trying to hurt each other and failing badly Perhaps they haven’t failed looking at the carnage in the Jock penalty area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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