Skamp Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 44 minutes ago, BraddersTim said: Do you think the answer might be to properly fund state schools? Are you actually having a laugh. Who phased out grammar schools? Who then explicitly banned grammar schools? Who then created accadamies? Who then put all the schools into debt by acting like a kid in a sweet shop when he got his grubby hands on the PFI principle? This is where all the money made available to fund schools has gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 9 minutes ago, BraddersTim said: I remember it - the golden period where Labour thought they had to be Tories, thank God we'll never see that again eh? It doesn't change anything with regards Austerity though. Doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 8 minutes ago, BraddersTim said: so up to 6.4bn according to HMRC estimate, could be lower, could be higher. Double? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skamp Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 25 minutes ago, BraddersTim said: Stop it Skamp 😂 No Govt that's been in power for 14 years gets the right to blame a Govt that came to power in 1997. 14 years...they've had 14 years and they've made it immeasurably worse. I love your commitment though. How much more do you want? is an increase of £7bn in the past 2 years not enough? BTW - this is real money, not the type of money that Starmer is currently chucking about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 5 minutes ago, BraddersTim said: No OK. If you look at the data, there was a slight contraction in govt spending 2010-2013 and then it grew year on year until it balloned due to the pandemic. The previous years,2000-2009 saw remarkable increase in spending due to the statist polices of Brown which ultimately the country could no longer afford when the global economy retracted in 2007-08. https://www.statista.com/statistics/298465/government-spending-uk/ So Austerity was needed after 12 years of flagrant over spending by Labour. To the extent that Labour recognised it needed to slash public spending to pre 97 levels and promised to cut further than the tories. The Treasury expected Austerity to create 2 whole parliaments of pain, which it did, and was followed quite quickly by the pandemic which created further massive problems re government spending requirements and the inflationary bubble caused by lack of supply (die to China effectively closing down for two years). So going back to your original comment, do the facts support it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 (edited) 41 minutes ago, BraddersTim said: But basically it boils to the same, you've got your facts that support your views, I've got mine But you don't have any facts. You made comment about why you think the tories/ lib dem coalition and the subsequent tory govt under Cameron instigated Austerity "to destroy public services" and that Osborne would have gone further faster" when during his tenure 2010-2016 he increased public spending year on year. There's literally Zero fact or data to support this Plus the Labour Chancellor recognised the need for Austerity and promised larger cuts than Osborne - so would you say Darling wanted to destroy the public sector Edited May 29 by Andyben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 Don't worry about replying, you can't argue with fact, even if you don't belive it. It doesn't make it less true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 I was out and about yesterday and what intrigues me is how your perception of the UK changes in very small geographical distances. My destination was Bracknell, so a fairly non descript new town, but quite well to do as a commuter town and tech industries. But it's next door to Ascot, the racecourse I passed prepping for the social season and displays of wealth, the £7m mansions overlooking it. On through Windsor Great Park and its connection to royalty and old money. Then erm Slough, a whole different urban multicultural world Back to the wealth of middle England in Farnham Common, Beaconsfield and some of the most exclusive places to live in the UK I then caught sight of the HS2 works, I have to say for all the controversy attached to it, the infrastructure looks impressive. Yet in Wycombe, Aylesbury and Slough there will be areas of poverty and social deprivation. The prospective client I met were fairly unassuming people, worked their way from normal upbringing, now have a buy to let portfolio valued at £2.5m, the Thatcherite dream and an IHT angst, but on cancer treatment, their reliance on the NHS for that and what they may need for future social care. I do mull things over as I drive along (listening to the playlist you recommended Andyben) and it was those contrasts, but equally the UK ain't a bad place really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 The LOZoSCURA playlist out of interest. Any others to recommend @Andyben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 2 minutes ago, mkowl said: The LOZoSCURA playlist out of interest. Any others to recommend @Andyben I found one woth stuff like Billy Bragg, Rev & the Makers etc but it costs too much and doesn't work despite promises to the contrary 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 6 minutes ago, Andyben said: I found one woth stuff like Billy Bragg, Rev & the Makers etc but it costs too much and doesn't work despite promises to the contrary I can see what you did there Saying that I quite like The Levellers but politically it's fair to say I am a tad removed from most of their songs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 17 minutes ago, BraddersTim said: Some polls giving Labour 27 point lead... I don't think the gap will be that wide. Labour will win, and should do but by default as it's more about the WEFists under Sunak deserving to lose than anything Starmer / Labour has said or done meaning they should win. That make sense? In the past 24hrs I honestly believe my prediction of a labour minority government will happen. There's not the ground swell of public support that Blair had from 1995 onwards to create a big majority. The Left is already beginning to revolt and a few choice independents / Galloway's Workers Party and what appears to be a move from certain Islamic groups to take over the green party in key areas could cost labour more than Reform costs Sunak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reesh Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 1 minute ago, BraddersTim said: I'd prefer a hung parliament tbh, the Liberals/Greens or SNP potentially could make it a better Govt and more centre left policies, rather than Tory Lite which is where Starmer is and Tory Central, where Reeves is. But Labour will win, don't kid yourself otherwise. Eurgh Angela Rayner and Richard Burgon in positions of power......frightening. Mind the other options are hardly appealing either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reesh Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 Just now, BraddersTim said: I mean if we're going to talk about rank personalities in power....🤯 Yes petal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 On 30/05/2024 at 18:48, Andyben said: appears to be a move from certain Islamic groups to take over the green party in key areas ...three Green candidates already barred from standing due to histories antisemitic comments. If the new Green 🇸🇦party and Galloway's )never done a day's) work-ers party pick up the muslim vote in the West Midlands/ NorthWest/West Yorks caliphate and certain seats in London , then this could eat into the no of seats that should go to Labour, and depending on turnout we cojld see a few reform seats as they take advantage of the disenfranchised white vote that loved Boris but have been let down since 2019. Looking more likely that a minority Labour government will be the result on 5th July, but a deal with lib dems is all they'll have because Gorgeous George and the Greens won't forgive Starmer for his lack of support for the terrorists in Gaza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 On 23/05/2024 at 22:07, Andyben said: Looks like Farage will be picking up the pieces of the Tory party in autumn and merging with Reform. He's played it superbly well. Called it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraddersTim Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Tice and Farage not even speaking apparently so it might have to be a hostile takeover if your theory is to pan out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 12 hours ago, Andyben said: Called it. Sadly the Tory party will then be finished as an electable party, like Labour under Corbyn was The people who actually determine elections are generally those in the centre, not that politically engaged. My vote counts no different to Mrs MK's 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Farage has absolutely nailed this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraddersTim Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 41 minutes ago, Andyben said: Farage has absolutely nailed this. For the 8th time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 No overall majority is 9/1 at Bet365 Free money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skamp Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 2 hours ago, Andyben said: Farage has absolutely nailed this. Proper bloke's bloke. Like Boris. I assume Piers Morgan is giving his head a wobble right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraddersTim Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, Andyben said: No overall majority is 9/1 at Bet365 Free money For Bet365 definitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Just now, BraddersTim said: For Bet365 definitely. Fancy a side bet on No majority? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraddersTim Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 26 minutes ago, Skamp said: Proper bloke's bloke. Like Boris. I assume Piers Morgan is giving his head a wobble right now. He's a grifter, much like Johnson. And tbf to @Andybenhis analysis could come true. If he picks up the remnants of the Tories after the election, makes/merges a new right wing opposition then things are going to get much nastier in the UK by the next election. As much as I hate saying it, a centre Tory core remaining in charge of them after July 4th is the best outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraddersTim Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 3 minutes ago, Andyben said: Fancy a side bet on No majority? Tempting but No. I'm interested in why you're so confident though. The things you've mentioned to date aren't really going to have much of an impact, so what do you really think will cause a hung parliament? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 (edited) Who said hung parliament? No overall majority would mean everything from a Labour minority government to a Tory minority government and everything in between. Farage taking a front line position is more of a danger to Labour than the tories - as per previous election when they took more votes from traditional Labour seats. The tories have blown their chances so badly and have lost so many voters this won't actually have much of an impact on them. Be interested to see if any current tory MPs now defect to Reform. I know you don't like him or his views but watch the whole thing and you'll see what I mean. He would have won his last seat if the Tories didn't cheat. Remember one of their agents got a 9mth prison sentence because of it. Like I posted above. He's after th disenfranchised voters that feel cheated by both major parties. Edited June 3 by Andyben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 23 hours ago, BraddersTim said: Tice and Farage not even speaking apparently so it might have to be a hostile takeover if your theory is to pan out. This is the danger the main parties face. They were always talking and discussing whether Farage takes a seat and the leadership. Big mistake to discount them and their natural followers , like in 2016 & 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraddersTim Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, Andyben said: This is the danger the main parties face. They were always talking and discussing whether Farage takes a seat and the leadership. Big mistake to discount them and their natural followers , like in 2016 & 2019 I honestly don't think that he's that bothered about this election. Imo he's after picking up the pieces and building for the next one as the UK Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 (edited) 12 minutes ago, BraddersTim said: I honestly don't think that he's that bothered about this election. Imo he's after picking up the pieces and building for the next one as the UK Trump. Did you watch it? He appears to be very much up for it and energised. Its very worth while even if you don't like him or his policies. Quite revealing about his disdain for the tories and also what he sees to be reforms role, and particularly his role in opposition to a Labour government. Edited June 3 by Andyben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraddersTim Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 I've seen quite a few clips of different interviews, yes he sounds convincing but he's a conman and he's very good at it. I do agree with you though in the main, I just think that he sees this election as a stepping stone that's all, by the next one he wants to set this country up as right wing vs left wing as per the USA. He'll use the mad elements of the Tories and the Reform/UKIP and Tommy Robinson element to generate his support base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted June 4 Author Share Posted June 4 The funniest aspect of Farage standing is on X when the wokerati froth at the mouth, the ones saying ignore him and there are 200 replies on the thread I mean I don't like Farage or the underlings like Tommy Robinson and what they stand for, but some of the points raised are salient (ok some are a bit racist as well). They are saying things that the mainstream parties or media simply don't or daren't, that we are getting a different type of sectarianism in certain parts of the country, that there is 2 tier policing, the London centric view of immigration etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skamp Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 2 hours ago, BraddersTim said: I've seen quite a few clips of different interviews, yes he sounds convincing but he's a conman and he's very good at it. is a con man someone who puts his arms around you, pulling you close into his bosom and whispering all the things you wish to hear before robbing you blind? Hmm. Who does that sound like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraddersTim Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 36 minutes ago, Skamp said: is a con man someone who puts his arms around you, pulling you close into his bosom and whispering all the things you wish to hear before robbing you blind? Hmm. Who does that sound like? Nigel Farage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraddersTim Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 The debate last night was dreadful. The polls say Starmer won on the key issues but I thought it was just depressingly bad. The format was terrible, the moderating was abysmal. It doesn't matter a jot in terms of the election result but it goes to highlight how shite our politicians have become in the last 15 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted June 5 Author Share Posted June 5 6 hours ago, BraddersTim said: The debate last night was dreadful. The polls say Starmer won on the key issues but I thought it was just depressingly bad. The format was terrible, the moderating was abysmal. It doesn't matter a jot in terms of the election result but it goes to highlight how shite our politicians have become in the last 15 years. I don't disagree on your last point. I mean there is always style over substance when it comes to politics. But as Boris 100% showed, you can have bundles of political charisma, it can get you elected, but you don't keep the job because you are to being PM as Wayne Rooney is to being a football manager. My long gripe is short termism, they prefer to be engaged in the politics but nothing that helps actually improve the country. They talk about training UK nurses, but I know from my daughters experience the system is inadequate, the attrition rate is 20% and above, fuck it the VISA rules let's us head hunt loads from poorer nations. There is a plan about apprenticeships but the current system is crap in many areas. The wife's nephew did the hard yards to get an engineering one, 4 weeks later the 6 newbies were told there is no role. The colleges then said now too late to do owt else. Tbf he got off his arse and got another job, but they can quote the numbers all they want its a waste of time if the back up is not there. That would take 5 - 10 years. And that is why these policies are all mouth and no trousers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraddersTim Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Serious question - Is Sunak deliberately trying to lose by as much as possible to take revenge on the plotters in his party or is he just really really bad at politics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 25 minutes ago, BraddersTim said: Serious question - Is Sunak deliberately trying to lose by as much as possible to take revenge on the plotters in his party or is he just really really bad at politics? The best conspiracy theory is he has a large bet on to lose by a huge margin A consistent theme I hear - politically biased as it is to more centre right business owners - is what a disappointment he has been as PM. Thought he would be different to the complete self buffoonery incompetence of Boris, the utter madness of Truss, a more considered studious approach. Nope just shite. If you are going to run a presidential type campaign then you can afforf zero mistakes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraddersTim Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 8 minutes ago, mkowl said: The best conspiracy theory is he has a large bet on to lose by a huge margin A consistent theme I hear - politically biased as it is to more centre right business owners - is what a disappointment he has been as PM. Thought he would be different to the complete self buffoonery incompetence of Boris, the utter madness of Truss, a more considered studious approach. Nope just shite. If you are going to run a presidential type campaign then you can afforf zero mistakes Agreed. Even opponents thought after Johnson/Truss "at least there's an adult in the room". Turns out that there isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skamp Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 1 hour ago, BraddersTim said: Serious question - Is Sunak deliberately trying to lose by as much as possible to take revenge on the plotters in his party or is he just really really bad at politics? He's scored an almighty own goal here and you may be on to something. Shit. I think I might have agreed with you on something for the first time on this thread. * go's for a lie down * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraddersTim Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 20 minutes ago, Skamp said: He's scored an almighty own goal here and you may be on to something. Shit. I think I might have agreed with you on something for the first time on this thread. * go's for a lie down * I can feel your pain 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 1 hour ago, mkowl said: the utter madness of Truss, Explain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 38 minutes ago, Andyben said: Explain I think the market reaction explained that without me having to expand the argument I will concur that some of the reforms, in time, deserved exploring further but the impact of spooking the markets and thereafter the impact on the economy cannot be justified She is also bat shit crazy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 6 minutes ago, mkowl said: 47 minutes ago, Andyben said: Explain I think the market reaction explained that without me having to expand the argument Kev. This is bollocks by the way. The increase in gilt yields had already been priced into the market well before her announcement in the mini budget. But the media jumped on it and blamed her. If you look at what she was actually proposing it make complete and utter economic sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skamp Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Just watching the Green Party's election broadcast. Fuck me, they've out Laboured Labour in promising to spend money like it's going out of fashion without explaining where their magic money tree is planted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 3 hours ago, Andyben said: Kev. This is bollocks by the way. The increase in gilt yields had already been priced into the market well before her announcement in the mini budget. But the media jumped on it and blamed her. If you look at what she was actually proposing it make complete and utter economic sense Yep if you live in cloud cuckoo land 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 2 minutes ago, mkowl said: Yep if you live in cloud cuckoo land Or read? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 3 minutes ago, mkowl said: Yep if you live in cloud cuckoo land Give me summary of what happened Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 39 minutes ago, Skamp said: Just watching the Green Party's election broadcast. Fuck me, they've out Laboured Labour in promising to spend money like it's going out of fashion without explaining where their magic money tree is planted. In a organic patch presumably. I pointed out on X their hypocrisy. Caroline Lucas supporting the policy of not restricting child benefit to just 2 children. Surely given the cost of natural resources expended by a developed nation human you should be supporting population reductions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 2 minutes ago, Andyben said: Or read? C'mon Andy you are literally the only person who thinks she was any good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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