Politics shit innit

[BraddersTim]

Just now, Reesh said:

I was there all along, you never most sane people disagreeing with that, don't be all pompous, it doesn't suit you.

Can you translate that please?

[BraddersTim]

Just now, mkowl said:

Do you really think that freeports are going to be unregulated to the extent that many fear.

So are you suggesting NMW rules won't apply

Employment protections won't apply

Union representation won't be allowed

Planning regulations totally abandoned

Health and safety abandoned

Like parts of Bangladesh or indeed those businesses flying under the radar in the likes of Leicester. Because that is where the real dodgy stuff goes on, but guess what nobody inspects those businesses, a blind eye to every equality law.

So not sure the beef about freeports because they won't become some lawless state that you seem to predict, indeed they will compete with those that exist hidden in plain sight already in the UK. 

Don't see the left daring to mention that though

Do some reading up MK...it's actually quite frightening.

[mkowl]

1 minute ago, BraddersTim said:

One thing about Reeves, which directly contradicts your point about the wealth makers.  I have it on very good authority that she was engaging in conversations and getting feedback about what business wants from a Labour Govt for 18 months before the election, think CBI, Chambers of Commerce, those sorts of groups and the view was that she was really listening in a way that the Tories hadn't for years.

She is not going to piss off big business and The City.  But she is going to take money from the neediest, make welfare cuts and impose taxes that are unfair at the lowest end.  It's a pisser isn't it, finally get a Labour Govt and we get a Chancellor that's going to out Tory the Tories.  

I mean what she did in the schmooze zone and what appears to be predicted for the forthcoming Budget seem 2 different things now the mandate is theirs.

To be fair it wasn't difficult, the Tories had lost the vast bulk of the Tory owning businesses. I can tell you that from my very un random sample base of the clients.

Most wanted certainty but if the quid pro quo had been increased union powers, regulation and tax hikes that support would not have arisen and will quickly diminish. She could destroy the financial services industry very rapidly, the noise there is sell off of assets, relocation etc. 

You can't want to promote growth and then put in huge barriers that will stop the required investment in its tracks

[mkowl]

5 minutes ago, BraddersTim said:

Do some reading up MK...it's actually quite frightening.

What is actually frightening about what has been actioned so far and what could.

Unless I am missing something that is creating totally unregulated zones in the UK

[Reesh]

17 minutes ago, BraddersTim said:

Can you translate that please?

Yes 

 

It means you're a bit of a ****.

[mkowl]

https://www.bdo.co.uk/en-gb/insights/tax/vat-and-indirect-taxes/freeports

I mean it's hardly apocalyptic - it seems to be scare mongering and not much different to the old Enterprise Zones.

I mean an NI break, business rates relief and some enhanced capital allowances - the latter I suspect will be routinely rejected by HMRC as is their style. And the legislation would permit them to tweak by statutory instrument.

Is there any tangible evidence that companies are en masse re-locating there. 

 

[mkowl]

I mean the NI saving based on 3 years and it only applies up to £25k amounts to a saving of 2k per year per employee.

I mean it's OK but I am not going to commit to a £5m spend on a warehouse or a 5 year lease to secure it. Aren't these freeports in areas that have suffered economically and need regeneration. Isn't that evidence of an attempt at levelling up. The Custom duty relief applies for goods in that zone - once they leave that jurisdiction VAT and duty applies. 

The loss of tax is negligible based on the Govt impact assessment

[mkowl]

https://ifs.org.uk/publications/freeports-what-are-they-what-do-we-know-and-what-will-we-know

Seems a fair and balanced analysis of the policies the Tories brought in.

So having done my homework my conclusion is what is the fuss 

[BraddersTim]

2 hours ago, Reesh said:

Yes 

 

It means you're a bit of a ****.

And so are you, but there's more of you, ergo...

[Reesh]

11 minutes ago, BraddersTim said:

And so are you, but there's more of you, ergo...

Oooh like that is it .... 

[mkowl]

8 minutes ago, BraddersTim said:

Keep digging, look up where Sunak's Dad i Law has been involved before.  

In the UK or elsewhere ?

So yes a freeport may not always lead to a great outcome in other countries does not mean we are following the same path in the UK 

Certainly I can't see the union paymasters agreeing to huge de-regulation in those areas and Reeves won't want to give away the tax revenues.

The problem with the left leaning is often their arguments never go beyond the 6th form common room. Something is labelled "bad" and there is fuck all explanation you can give that will shift that view. 

I once tried to explain the UK accounts of Facebook to someone bemoaning the apparent low rate of corp tax. They start quoting revenues and you go well stop, companies pay tax on profit. Well the UK company did not book revenues earned in the UK in the UK. True but then would you moan if BP did not report it's global revenues in the UK. 

There was some nonsense the other days Richard Murphy an academic arguing the left need to make a convincing argument to rally against neoliberalism, but you ask what is the argument, show me not only how it works, where it works, how it works. That the Govt can rack up debt, spend what it likes, but with zero impact apparently on interest rates, exchange rates etc etc.

So to the point freeports in the current UK guise do not seem inherently a bad thing, whether it simply displaces investment from A to B is the more valid question, but if that is from a crowded south east to shithole coastal areas that have lots of land to remediate, where is the downside ?

 

[owl4ever1867]

Rachel Reeves - don't get me started on that clusterfuck waste of space.

At the end of the day, every single one of them ***** in the house of commons are looking after No1, nothing will change, the Country we live in will only get worse as time goes on.

 

[Wollongong Owl]

So I said to the kids, move to Australia. 

[mkowl]

16 hours ago, Wollongong Owl said:

So I said to the kids, move to Australia. 

It's an interesting one, last year when the wife's Uncle was over from Australia, he was bemoaning the politicians over there, the level of immigration - ironic given he emigrated there. 

 

 

[Wollongong Owl]

46 minutes ago, mkowl said:

It's an interesting one, last year when the wife's Uncle was over from Australia, he was bemoaning the politicians over there, the level of immigration - ironic given he emigrated there. 

 

 

Not saying there aren't issues but immigration is controlled rather than the free for all in the UK.

[mkowl]

6 minutes ago, Wollongong Owl said:

Not saying there aren't issues but immigration is controlled rather than the free for all in the UK.

The controlled immigration into the UK is about 15 times the scale of those on boats. But gets about 1/15th of the airtime 

[Skamp]

Kuenssberg surprisingly doing a decent job of calling Starmer out to be the weak politician he is, full of promises in opposition and full of shit in position.

 

[Skamp]

@mkowl @Andyben

 

You guys probably know more about this than anyone else on here so here goes.

 

What's to stop a company being set up to manage children's school admissions to private schools?

The same as a shell company for ir35.

 

Parents 'invest' money equal to the school fee + 20% and the company pays the child's school fee.

Company then claims back the vat, takes [say] 25% management fee and pays a bonus of the balance back to the parents.

So, £12k paid in, £2k reclaimed, £500 management fee, £1.5k back to parent who then pays cgt if appropriate (20%)

Parent then pays £800 in total vs £2k and Reeves gets just the £300 cgt plus any Corp Tax on all the 25%s

 

 

 

Edited September 9 by Skamp

[Andyben]

The government's bill won't pass as legislation.

All window dressing 

[Skamp]

I read today that's there's a legal challenge anyway

[mkowl]

8 hours ago, Skamp said:

@mkowl @Andyben

 

You guys probably know more about this than anyone else on here so here goes.

 

What's to stop a company being set up to manage children's school admissions to private schools?

The same as a shell company for ir35.

 

Parents 'invest' money equal to the school fee + 20% and the company pays the child's school fee.

Company then claims back the vat, takes [say] 25% management fee and pays a bonus of the balance back to the parents.

So, £12k paid in, £2k reclaimed, £500 management fee, £1.5k back to parent who then pays cgt if appropriate (20%)

Parent then pays £800 in total vs £2k and Reeves gets just the £300 cgt plus any Corp Tax on all the 25%s

 

 

 

It is an interesting one because it's the bloke down the pub thinking, indeed a client raised this last week but it's one even before the VAT would get aired.

There are a few factors but the first is could you claim the VAT back even if you already had a VAT registered business ? The issue is that there is a general input VAT block for personal expenditure, even if you can get the school to contract directly with the company is it still personal. But more it could be flipped round - what is the business purpose of the expense. 

The secondary income tax aspect is that at best it is a benefit in kind, worst it is deemed net salary and grossed up. 

So I will probably see some schemes being marketed, I am sure some clients, whether parents or grandparents will raise it, but to be honest given my experience any marketed ones would fail and I definitely won't give a view as not having the shitty stick headed my direction when they inevitable happens. 

 

[mkowl]

7 hours ago, Skamp said:

I read today that's there's a legal challenge anyway

Not helped that our local council here Bucks County Council got into trouble by incorrectly asking the financial means of a parent and whether a local state school place would be offered on the basis of that. 

But the way VAT works it is generally on the type of supply made not the supplier. So the legal challenge will be can you target private schools in isolation. Be cleverer people than me on both the Govt side but lawyers 

The reality is this is just playing to the gallery, the net take will be modest at best

[mkowl]

And not withstanding another quirk which relates to salary sacrifice, I have it on one client that does the cycle to work scheme. Yep they can claim the input VAT on the bike and provider fees, but there is an output VAT adjustment on the salary sacrifice.

Basically becomes VAT neutral

[Skamp]

Just like when Newcastle hit the 6th goal the sty, a load of undesirables swarming our streets early today without seeing out what they were supposed to see out.

[Andyben]

19 hours ago, Andyben said:

The government's bill won't pass as legislation.

All window dressing 

Unless they decide to leave the ECHR...

[Skamp]

10 hours ago, Skamp said:

Just like when Newcastle hit the 6th goal the sty, a load of undesirables swarming our streets early today without seeing out what they were supposed to see out.

Probation Service now overwhelmed with expectations that most will be back inside shortly.

 

The early releasees, and their friends and family, shown on tv makes you want to sigh.   Victims crying themselves to sleep tonight.

Still eh, black hole blah blah.

Here's a good socialist solution, build more prisons provide work for the unemployed. Keynes would approve. 

 

Edited September 10 by Skamp

[Andyben]

Reeves claimed £3700 heating allowance in the 5yrs up to her decision to take a lower annual amount from poor pensioners 

[Andyben]

12 hours ago, Skamp said:

Probation Service now overwhelmed with expectations that most will be back inside shortly.

 

The early releasees, and their friends and family, shown on tv makes you want to sigh.   Victims crying themselves to sleep tonight.

Still eh, black hole blah blah.

Here's a good socialist solution, build more prisons provide work for the unemployed. Keynes would approve. 

 

TTK telling us how tough he is on knife crime whilst at same time giving an early release to a lad who committed manslaughter by killing someone with a machete.

[mkowl]

The prison situation, like much of the infrastructure and services in the UK are a victim of the culture of short term political decisions. Our electoral system that can permit huge political switches from in truth a fairly modest change of opinion places more emphasis on the 5 year electoral cycle. So why commit funding, why build more prisons where the benefits may be years down the line.

And this has been pushed round the plate like a child with a pile of stewed cabbage on it by all sides of the political spectrum. 

And the shit you get when you try and address the problem like Labour are now, is another reason. Build more prisons is a cry, sure but that is what a 3 - 5 year window to do.

 

[mkowl]

And to add balance the fact that unfettered immigration, part of which has introduced a new degree of criminalty to the UK, that is taking huge resources that could be utilised to build prisons, would have prevented the means testing of the winter fuel allowance etc etc.

The fact that the probation service is going to house some of the early released prisoners in budget hotels, be ironic if it's the same corridor has the asylum seekers 

[MAL]

43 minutes ago, mkowl said:

And to add balance the fact that unfettered immigration, part of which has introduced a new degree of criminalty to the UK, that is taking huge resources that could be utilised to build prisons, would have prevented the means testing of the winter fuel allowance etc etc.

The fact that the probation service is going to house some of the early released prisoners in budget hotels, be ironic if it's the same corridor has the asylum seekers 

We have 5,000 empty back up hotel rooms that we are paying for every day. 

FIVE THOUSAND

That is just back up rooms,  for "just in case" a lot more arrive than usual 🤑

I don't know whether that has just started under Labour, or if it was in place under the Tories first. 

[Andyben]

 

[mkowl]

Let's be honest the next attack is going to be on private pensions. Whether that is

a) Restricting tax relief on pension contributions on the way in

b) Reducing the tax free lump sum from 25% of the fund - to a limit maybe even 0%

c) Bringing pension funds into the scope of inheritance tax, or re-introducing punitive exit charges on residual pension funds at time of death

Or a combination of all of them.

Probably exempt the defined benefit schemes of the civil service and public sector.

And frankly given aside from a mortgage this is a longest term plan you do, it would be fuck up a lot of people's plans for one but completely screw the economy 

[Andyben]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/09/12/low-skilled-migrants-cost-taxpayers-150000-each/

[Andyben]

On 11/09/2024 at 18:55, mkowl said:

Let's be honest the next attack is going to be on private pensions.

..and probably will exempt the parliamentary pension scheme and civil service one too

[Skamp]

Starmer's plan for a football regulator could put the England national team and PL clubs out of any UEFA competition.

They don't like state meddling into football apparently.

Clearly they think it's their own job to meddle.

[Tylluan]

1 hour ago, Skamp said:

Starmer's plan for a football regulator could put the England national team and PL clubs out of any UEFA competition.

They don't like state meddling into football apparently.

Clearly they think it's their own job to meddle.

This is UEFA doing a Putin and saying "I'll press the button, I really will, don't believe me then try me... I'm doing it, I'm going to do it, watch me" like a petulant child. 

And what the FA should be saying is "go then, do it, press it, I dare you, I double dare you" because the moment UEFA do then the Euros is tits up (because no one else could really be arsed to bid) and the moment they tell English clubs they can't play in Europe is the start of the Euro Super League. 

 

 

[Skamp]

Another failed assassination attempt on  Trump.

 

Or another PR coup

 

The American people must decide

 

Meanwhile, Lee Harvey Oswsld spins in his grave about these amateurs 

[Tylluan]

I reckon it's PR bollocks but Trump might be oblivious. 

His team are looking at the numbers, think he's losing ground and figure 'shit it worked last time'. 

And it just enhances the 'God's chosen one' rhetoric used by his most rabid followers and Trump himself.